Episode 48: Ask Me Anything

I had not done an Ask Me Anything session in over a year which led to many questions on a wide variety of topics: macro, marketplaces, AI, fundraising, wealth management, education, island shopping, India, how to lose your accent, adventure travel, climate tech, the state of VC, and much more.

Here are the key questions we covered:

  •  00:01:17 How will all the geopolitical changes, tariffs, and Trump policies influence the world?
  • 00:06:14 What are the key tips for finding and persuading investors?
  • 00:08:44 What do you think is the future of fashion marketplaces? How has it been impacted by downfalls of marketplaces such as Farfetch? What is the role of AI in these?
  • 00:13:19 What’s your view on the best investment opportunities currently? Is the stock market, given the current drop off, attractive or still overvalued? I read a while ago your non-traditional approach to wealth management. How would you allocate $10 million now?
  • 00:19:21 We have around 15K revenues per month, are we okay to raise a pre-seed?
  • 00:21:14  What kind of education, school, university degrees do you recommend for kids to best prepare for them for the jobs market in 10 years considering the impact of AI? What skills should they start developing?
  • 00:26:46  What is the best cold inbound email you ever received?
  • 00:29:39 If you’re finishing your studies today, what kind of job or company would you join to best train yourself to launch a tech startup later? Is a place like McKinsey or investment banking still relevant if the goal is to learn to work with intensity and structure?
  • 00:32:40 As a recent French graduate with a background in BA in finance, which countries do you think offer the most learning opportunities today in terms of ease of doing business, networking, potential, etc.?
  • 00:33:34 When will you launch the updated and new version of Fabrice AI? How can I build a network in the tech community in France?
  • 00:38:30  Fabrice, any exciting travel coming up? What’s your favorite personal use of AI?
  • 00:42:39 If an incumbent exists in my category, are there still opportunities to enter the market?
  • 00:45:51 What made you decide for Turks & Caicos and not another island?
  • 00:52:57 What is your favorite place in India?
  • 00:55:48  How did you lose your French accent? What is your secret?
  • 01:00:52 What is on your target list for climate related investment opportunities?
  • 01:02:55  Did you do your long hike through Greenland that you wanted to do?
  • 01:06:03 If you were building a tech company like Zingy today, would you still raise VC money or bootstrap it considering there are many examples of founders barely making any money in $500M exits?
  • 01:08:39 What advice do you have for a home care marketplace founder who has found product market fit but ran out of money in 2023 but has “survived”?
  • 01:10:55 What are the future big trends in AI and especially with consumer usage?
  • 01:13:12  For personal or small retail, which AI tools do you believe are worth paying a subscription for today?
  • 01:13:49 What do you seek in founders for pre-revenue Startups?
  • 01:14:34 What is the biggest turn down for the VC while seeing the pitch deck? What is the biggest green flag as well? What is the red flag when cold connecting with VC people?
  • 01:16:17 Can you address the opportunities for crossover funds?
  • 01:18:43  Any view on Indian VC opportunities?
  • 01:19:29 Should I hire a CTO or CFO?
  • 01:20:23 What do you see as the future for companies like Alan (French Unicorn) nearly 10 years in €500 million raised, still unprofitable, operating on tight margins, valued at €4.5B?
  • 01:21:15 From your perspective, what skill or type of service is the easiest to sell today is a freelance consultant?
  •  01:22:20 How much will Bitcoin be worth in 2030?  
  • 01:26:35 What do you think of initiatives such as WorldCoin?
  • 01:26:43 Loved the shoot-out story in the Dominican Republic. Do you have any other crazy adrenaline pumping stories from your adventures?
  •  01:30:27 Do you prefer repeat founders or first-time founders?
  • 01:32:22 Why is it so hard to raise capital for fashion marketplaces?
  • 01:33:28 In your view, what is the most important trait or skill for a founder – being emotionally stable, able to handle the extreme stress, something else entirely?
  • 01:36:11 Would you be open for a lunch in New York so I can bring all the questions I have for 45 minutes?
  • 01:37:13 What makes niche marketplaces breakout and go big globally?
  • 01:39:44 Is artificial intelligence dangerous for humanity? Will it increase unemployment? Should countries create rules to prevent that? Can we master something that might be beyond us?
  • 01:46:46 What’s your take on vibe coding trend or real shift?

If you prefer, you can listen to the episode in the embedded podcast player.

In addition to the above YouTube video and embedded podcast player, you can also listen to the podcast on iTunes and Spotify.

Transcript

Hello everyone. I’m hoping you’re having a wonderful week. So, it’s been over a year since I did a ask Me Anything, and of course, a lot has changed in the world. There’s been so many developments in AI, so many developments in politics and geopolitics and the world at large. So, I figured it was time to basically take your questions, assess where we are, and yeah, see how things are going to go.

So, with that, any further ado, let’s get going. Welcome to episode 48. Ask me Anything.

So as usual feel free to put questions in the, in the, in the chat and I will answer them real time as they get posted. And just to get us started, I’ll, I’ll start with the pre asked questions. People send me by email post me sending a newsletter saying, Hey what are the topics that you want me to cover?

So I’ll start with, [00:01:17] I want to ask your opinion about how all the geopolitical changes tariffs, Trump policies will influence the world in trade and what opportunities this will create. It would be amazing if you feel like sharing this. So obviously there’s been a lot of changing, there’s been a lot of disruption with all the terror policy, et cetera.

I mean, here’s what’s interesting is when Trump got elected I guess a lot of people in tech community were maybe hopeful that, hey, the markets will reopening again, right? Like the problem intact in the last few years is outside of artificial intelligence, there’s been no real investment.

There’s been a very big compression, and there’s been no exits, no M&A, no IPOs. And the M&A was blocked mostly by like the antitrust regulation, so SCC, FTC, FCC, and, the IPO is just the IPO market and the IPO windows closed, so we were hoping it was going to start reopening and we in fact have several companies in our portfolio like Klarna, that have filed to go public in, in early 25.

But with all the tariff stuff like then the noise and the markets and the uncertainty and the fear of what might happen in the unknown the IPO windows closed. They delayed at least the IPO don’t know if they pulled it forever. And so things haven’t played out exactly as we were hopefully expecting. Now to answer the question that I was asked specifically is like, what do I think is going on?

 I try to give in general the benefit of adapt to policymakers while decisions assume they’re not idiots. And so if I’m assuming they’re not idiots, why are they doing what they’re doing? And so I thought through long and hard, and here’s a rational potential explanation I came up with for why this may make sense.

So I think Trump sees himself as the peacemaker in chief. He wants to make peace in Ukraine. He wants to make peace in the Middle East. And I think the problem that he’s faced or he is facing is he’s like, look, no one has ever given Putin an exit strategy, right? Like if Putin any made any concessions, left Ukraine with nothing to show for it, perhaps his own safety might be at risk.

Can we create an environment where we give them an opportunity to make concessions, to get a piece? And so one way to think about it, I’m like, Hey, maybe we’re pretending to fight with our allies. We’re maybe we don’t tell them because if you tell them with all the slice, leak, et cetera, it comes out and we put tariffs on all our allied countries to create more of a common ground, to give them an opportunity to negotiate and make concessions that lead to last piece.

Now, I think it’s a bad strategy cause I don’t think you want to be negotiating with Putin who cannot be trusted. But if that was your intention, maybe you try it and if it doesn’t work, you know what? You’re goanna get token concessions from the EU, from Canada, Mexico, whatever.

And perhaps you roll everything back. So I’m hoping that these things are temporary now. The problem is temporary in the world of politics, maybe a year or two and not like three months. And in the meantime, to answer the specific question, like what are the opportunities being created? Well, clearly, you know, thinking through how you’re moving your supply chains, thinking through how you are dealing with your cost structure and, you know, are you onshoring things as we’re seeing some companies do, or are you moving the supply chains out of China?

You know, we’re investors in Quince, which is an affordable luxury marketplace, and they’re crushing it zero to billion in like three years. They’re going to a multi-billion dollar run rate. Historically, they were sourcing everything from China. In a three month period they moved their entire supply chains out of China.

Now, they would benefit tremendously if de Minimis continues the de Minimis exemption for orders below $800. But even if it doesn’t because they’re the lowest cost provider, I suspect they, they will continue to do well. So I suspect the low cost nimble producers, so the startups of the world will continue to do well in that world.

Now that said, I. With global geopolitical macroeconomic uncertainty, it’s harder to raise venture funding. It’s harder for VCs to raise venture capital. And until there’s exits and IPOs, the flywheel is not really open. So it’s still going to remain complicated, but hoping that this plays out in the next few years in a not too disruptive way.

And it will create opportunities. But I suspect that disruptors, the startups are better positioned to take advantage of these opportunities than the Cummins because they move quickly, they have lower cost structures. Let’s see. One of the questions we got in, and then I’ll go into more email questions.

So Onur and I’m not going to mention your last name to avoid completely torturing on how I say it. [00:06:14] What are the key tips for finding and persuading investors? Because I have a start-up called Cusinea. It’s an AI powered online training platform for restaurant workers and a marketing social media platform for restaurants. We already have partnered six restaurants before the official launch. I’m currently seeking investment.

I would describe where you’re at kind of at the pre-seed stage and the pre-seed stage. You know, pre-launch or like proof of concept. This first half million, million dollars you need to raise honestly is still, is mostly, there’s not many funds that focus on that. The pre-seed.

There are a few, like Afore A-F-O-R-E is an example of that. There’s iSeed in India from, I mean there’s a few but very, very few. Amplify in LA most  pre-seed honestly is fool’s friends and family. It’s like going to your wealthier friends who support you, back you and saying, Hey, I need 5-10K.

And the thing is, you know, 50 times 10K, 100 times 5K actually is enough money to pre-seed. Also you need to realize it’s cheaper than it’s ever been a build a startup. You know, when I was building my first startups, I needed an like Oracle database servers, Microsoft Web Servers.

I needed to build my own data center that was pre-open source, pre Rackspace data centers. And that’s even pre, obviously cloud and now AI. You can kind of build anything these days with 15K you can launch and then you can use whatever capital you raise a couple hundred K to prove product market fit.

But your objective is to get a seed level traction. So what I would try to get to is 20K a month in net revenues. But if you’re charging SaaS fees, you get 20K in MRR, not ARR. With that, you get to the point where you can go raise seed ramps and then you can go raise 2-3 million from VC’s proving product market fit.

Likewise if you’re in a marketplace, you know you want to get to 150K a month in GMV. If you have a 15% take rate and same thing, you have 20-30K in net revenues, you prove product market fit, then you go raise the two, 3 million people like us who are unlikely unless you’re a second time founder, you’ve proven it before to invest your seed round unless you’ve proven a modicum of product market fit by getting there with very little cap.

Second question from notionXarma on Twitch. [00:08:44] I wanted to ask your idea about what do you think future of fashion marketplace and fashion is and how it impacted downfalls of marketplaces such as Farfetch? Just to add, what is the role of AI marketplaces in these?

So it’s interesting because in the US especially, the fashion marketplaces, and maybe let me put a full screen, you see more of the questions here?

The AI marketplaces, sorry, not the ai, the fashion marketplaces have not done very well, right? Poshmark? The real, real, I don’t know where the market cap of the real, real is. It’s actually not very high because the cost structure is too high. And so from the outside it could look like the category of fashion marketplaces is not doing well.

But there is a counter example. There is one company that is completely crushing it in Europe that has redefined and reinvented the category. And I’m very proud and happy to say I’m an early investor in the company since at least the pivot. And that company’s called Vinted V-I-N-T-E-D, so Vinted, which is actually currently being run by my right hand man at OLX.

He was like the fixer. When something went wrong in like whatever, Kenya, he would go and fix it. The difference they have to the Lithuanian based startup, most of biggest markets for them were France and the UK. They’ve made multiple innovations. First innovation is instead of charging 10-15% commission on the seller, they’re completely free, completely free to sell, completely free to buy.

And they say, if you’re the buyer, if you want optional escrow and shipping and payment, we will do it for you and we’ll charge whatever, two euros or like $2 plus 5% and everyone’s doing it. And as a result, they have an effective take rate of 10%. And what’s interesting, and, and some of these numbers are public, so I’ll give the public numbers from the last round.

Last year they did 6 billion in GMV, they did 600 million in net revenues. I think they did 80 million or so in free cash flow. They have a 50% EBITDA margin in the UK, 45% EBITDA margin in France. And they’re growing like this. And now, they’re in Italy, Spain, and like they’re growing across Europe, they’re launching into luxury.

And because they have the lowest cost structure, because they have the lowest take grade, they’re doing extraordinarily well with this buyer paid model. And so fashion is working really well. Now AI is playing multiple roles here. First role AI is playing is Vinted is probably the first true 10 European company.

It used to be when you were launching in Europe, you were like a French company or a German company, or a UK company. And when you were launching, you were actually opening a new office and having a different site and, and you would not sell between the sites in place. So what they’ve done is they realized we can now ship cross border in Europe very cheaply.

And so what you, what they do is the listings in France are actually translated automatically by AI and listed in Spain and Italy. And when a buyer in Italy wants to talk to a seller in France, all the conversations are translated automatically. So you have automatic translations of the listings, automatic translations of the conversations, all done by AI.

The listing process is also massively improved and done by  AI. So when you list right now, the AI will identify the category, the items suggest, the price, et cetera. So AI is being used to improve, like the background of the photos, to increase the sell-through rate, to, to automate the conversations between the users and to improve the sell through rate.

So massively disruptive and fashion is doing very well. And by the way, there are other innovations in the fashion marketplace space, not just in in buying and selling goods. We just invested in a company called Pickle. Pickle is a rental marketplace. So think it rents the runway but rental. And in New York, like all the Gen Z and millennial women have basically used it for dresses, et cetera.

It works extremely well. So I would say Vinted and Pickle, probably the two best examples of things that are happening in fashion. And these companies have way more growth to grow. I would not be surprised if Vinted is a 20-30 maybe even 50 plus billion dollar company in the next few years.

I’m very bullish on that investment. We’re going to continue investing, even though we now value a lot higher. And we’re all in on that company.

Mitch, on Twitch. [00:13:19] What’s your view on the best investment opportunities currently? Is the stock market, given the current drop off, attractive or still overvalued? It was a while ago on non-traditional approach to wealth management. How would you allocate the $10 million now?

The answer is, it depends on who you are and what your life needs are, and also where you are in your life cycle, right? Like if you’re 80 years old, investing in venture or you’re not going to make money for 10 years doesn’t make sense for me.

But on average, I stick to my knitting, like the reason I invest in venture of courses. I know what I’m doing. I’ve been returning 30% a year every year for the last 25 years. Nothing else I could invest in. And I think it’s pretty safe because a tech and software is eating the world and I know what I’m doing and I have a very, very diversified portfolio.

So I like investing in venture, investing in tech, but I would not invest in specific startup names, right? If you just started, you have 10 million in cash and you’re like, Hey, should I be an angel investor? I would say probably no, because you don’t have a deal flow, so you might not be seeing the best deals.

If anything, because you don’t have a deal flow, you’re probably seeing the worst deals. And venture follows something like called a power law, where the top deals account for all the returns. And so unless you’re investing in at least 50 deals, which guarantees you get some of the good deals, you’re very likely to lose money.

So you should not do your own angel investing. Now, if you want to give a little bit money to your friends, sure, I would allocate probably. So if you have access to a venture fund like ours, which we’re not that hard to get into, I would allocate a fair amount in venture. But again, you need to think through venture funds, capital calls every three years.

There’s going to be another fund in three years, another fund, three years, so whatever allocation. My personal allocation, by the way, it would be 10% in treasuries, T-bills, you know, you’re still generating 4% of your completely safe, and that’s your cash management and you use that for capital calls, et cetera. 10% in real estate. And real estate for me is not an investment, it’s consumption. It’s where I live and I have three beautiful homes, and in my case, the rest I’m putting in venture now I’m putting it in my own fund because I know what I’m doing. If I would probably, for most people at 10 million, your real estate is going to be more than that because you, you’re, the value of the real estate you want to live in is going to be higher.

That said, you’re getting leverage on it. So, you know, maybe you can have a $4-5 million house, but you put equity and then you can invest the rest in T-bills, you know, 10-20%. And then the rest, I still prefer the venture strategy. If you have a long term horizon, you don’t need cash. But I would invest in a fund and diversified funds, like box group or us, whatever would probably better.

You don’t have access to that. Yeah. S&P 500, ETF. Invest it, call it a day. Never look at it again. Or you know, in fact, I don’t, look, I don’t follow the news. I wouldn’t look at the portfolio. This is something that’s meant to compound over many years. So if you owned an ETF and S&P 500, or if you own Bitcoin, and yeah, I would probably have 5-10% of crypto invest it. Never look at it. If you want to look at it, look at it January one of every year. Don’t look at the ups and downs unless you’re a trader and you should not be a trader. You shouldn’t be looking at it. So most people, I’d say, I don’t know, maybe you go 20. I, obviously, I’m way, I don’t feel tech or venture is risky.

So I, I’m like 80% venture, 10% real estate, 10% cash or T-bills. Maybe other people should be 30% S&P 500, ETF you know, 10% crypto. And might just even be just BTC to make it simple. In crypto, let’s say another 20 or 30, not 20 in venture, 20 in T-bills and 10 in real estate, maybe something like that.

I mean, and you go up and down that way. Now it depends on sort of cash needs, income, salary, et cetera, life cycle. But a good sense of how I would think about it. But I would not be actively trading, I would not be investing specifically in my own startups because you’re not going to have enough and you’re not going to have the deal flow.

Okay. Let’s see. The next question Sheelagh Brady. In your experience, how do you think a new platform entering the risk management and safety space can leverage the geopolitical environment to its advantage? In your view, should the influence be for companies be on demonstrating ROI, or are there other strategic angles you’d advise focusing on at this stage?

There are a lot of companies in risk management, so I would want to understand what your real core differentiation is. Or you lower costs and better because you are leveraging AI or you going after a very specific vertical. I don’t hire these types of companies. If risk management, et cetera, I think, you know, they’re like salt on type stuff.

It’s like a waste of money. So I’m probably the least good person to ask. I’m probably the least good person to ask like, what, what this is. But look, the same strategy would apply for me if you’re at the beginning of launching the process. How do I validate business ideas? I talk to potential clients.

 I test whether or not they value the proposition. By the way, we talked to 50 of them, not five of them. I would say, okay, if I’m charging you this much, would you be willing to pay for it? I would like basically try to get these pilots going and I would not raise money until I have some modicum of product market fed.

if you even need money, right? It may need more of a cash flow. Lifestyle consultancy type business more than it is a scalable venture business. Sean on Twitter, thank you for doing this. Well, thank you. I’m I love doing this actually. It’s fun to like brainstorm, see what people, what is on people’s minds.

But I’m doing it once a year. Maybe I’ll do it every six months or so, on a go forward basis.

Yamini: [00:19:21] We have around 15K revenues per month, are we okay to raise a pre-seed? Oh, for sure. Pre-seed. You could be pre-launch Well, are you talking GMV the value of the merchandise sold or are you talking your take rate is if your take rate is 10% and you’re making 15K a month, that means you’re, you have 150K of sales per month.

That’s actually enough. Not just for pre-seed, but it’s actually enough for a seed round. Yes, for sure. You’re ready for a pre-seed. You may even be ready for seed depending on the business model and what you define as revenues, right? Because a marketplace that’s selling whatever, a hundred dollars a piece of clothing, their revenues not the a hundred dollars, their revenue is the percentage they take, which is like 10%, let’s say.

So it would be $10. But it depends. And okay. I’ve invited you on LinkedIn, happy to meet you one day in New York. Great. But while we wait for the next questions appear, I’ll go to the pre-sent questions by email. Sometimes when I do this, for some reason the view changes when I click out of the window, so I’ll fix it in a second.

Try to address it for the next stream.

Sorry about that. Misclick. We will have. This is annoying at 45% margin. Okay. So you mean you’re making like 7K a month? Yeah. You’re too early for seed, but you’re a pre-seed. But yeah, you should definitely raise right now. Okay. Let me go back to the questions.

Question from Rio. [00:21:14] What kind of education, school, university degrees do you recommend for tedious kids to best prepare for them for the jobs market in 10 years considering the impact of AI? What skills should they start developing?

You know, it’s actually really interesting because the schools, let’s say you’re in high school, I find that high schools are really doing a terrible job of thinking through preparing people for the future of the job market.

And frankly, for future life, right? Like when you graduate high school, let’s say you’re not going to college, you should know how to do your taxes. You should know how to have basic financial management skills where you’re doing your P&L and you know, okay, every month I’m earning this much, I’m spending this much, and my cash flow is positive or negative.

You should have like these very basic, how does a credit card work? You know, what if what happens if you don’t pay in time? How much interest you’re accruing? How do you save like basics, like how does a 401k work? How do you, all these basic life skills should definitely be taught in high school.

And many schools I think are also taking the wrong approach with ChatGPT clearly working with AI is going to be a key valuable skill set on a go forward basis. And so the idea that you’re making use of AI illegal in school for homework is idiotic. Now, no student in their own right should like just have a GPT write the essay.

That results are awful if you do that, by the way. But they should absolutely use it for research and should absolutely use it to improve the quality of their homework. And so schools are doing a very bad job. Now, let’s go to college for a second. Should you even go to college?

And I think here the answer is, it depends, right? Like if you are a self-motivated individual, you now have access to the very best education in the world, kind of for free, right? Like you can go to Coursera, you can go to YouTube. You can go to all the different products available online.

If you’re self-motivating, you can actually learn almost everything on your own. The problem of course, is you don’t have the pedigree, right? You don’t have the degree structure, which is a signaling device. What’s interesting is that signaling device is becoming less relevant on a go forward basis.

So when my companies hire programmers, we don’t actually even look at your resume. What school you went to, your grades. Literally it’s like programming tests, IQ tests or ability tests. Do you fit in? And often enough, the very best programmers are actually the ones who have been coding since they’re five and they’re in India or whatever, but like there, or Bangladesh, they didn’t go to Harvard or MIT, it doesn’t really matter anymore.

Yeah, it’s not true in other categories. And there were many other things you learn in school. From managing your own calendar to socializing, to building relevance skill sets, to having credibility that you develop. And it’s a signaling mechanism for jobs that are less quantitatively measured, like programming, right?

Like, so if you want to be in business involvement or sales, et cetera, way harder to evaluate how good you’re going to be absent, you know month of testing or like hiring you to see if it works. And so we use these recruiting, these schools as like signaling devices and the grades you have for how disciplined you are and how talented.

So it’s not going to go away anytime soon. So would I still probably go if you can, to like Sanford and MIT and Princeton, et cetera? Yes. Probably would not go. And what about I study there? It doesn’t matter all that much, honestly. I still am partial in my own life to things like math, and engineering and computer science, but economics I think explains the way the world works reasonably well.

And I do think even things like philosophy are useful. But is it necessary? Absolutely. No. First of all, the, you know, the field, whatever, fellowships, these kids are so bright and they’re so ahead of the time, they’re so high on IQ, honestly, they’re not going to benefit from going college. But that’s not true for most people.

Most people do benefit from going college. And if you’re in specific categories, like as I programming or whatever, SEO, whatever you can, if you’ve been doing it for 15 years and you don’t value anything else, not necessarily necessary, so. More nuance than before. And going to second tier colleges probably becomes way less value because the branding is not there.

And what you’re learning is probably not, not better than if you go online, if you have the discipline and you go teach yourself and Coursera, YouTube, et cetera. I mean, it’s shocking. Like for fun, I do that myself. Like I’m tea, I’m learning things I didn’t know. Just because I think it’s interesting, like the same way I built my AI last year and I wasn’t even using, you know, the Cursives or Lovable.Dev et cetera, products of the world that exist now.

And there’s so much to learn that you can self-teach. That could be, that could be helpful. And that’s true of everything else I mentioned before. But having a structure that kind of forces you to do it, like going to college is reasonably helpful. So, you know, I guess the answer is often in, in life is, it depends.

It depends on your personal life circumstances, where you’re at, where you’re going. But yeah, lots of opportunities to learn and be amazing.

Ani Amar: [00:26:46] What is the best pulled email you ever received that led eventually led to an intro meeting? So we are one of the few VC firms that actually looks at cold.

Like I think if you send a deal to deals that Sequoia capital.com or whatever, I’m sure it goes the auto delete black hole, never, no human ever even looks at it. Some of our very best deals have been called inbound emails, where a founder sends me an InMail on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, unless you have in my email.

If you have my email, you can send it to me, but it’s either directly my email or by LinkedIn in mail. They said, look I’m not a traditional founder. I didn’t go to Stanford or MIT or whatever, but I’ve been working this for many years. We have this level of traction, by the way, like series B or C level of traction.

But because we’re in Belo Horizonte or because we’re in like a non-traditional geography in the us we’re in whatever, upstate New York, we haven’t been able to raise capital. We’re not that well connected, but I have real business, real union economics. Here’s my deck, you know, and we meet, and you’ve made it easy for me to say yes.

Yeah, you gave me all the information I needed. So I have the deck. I’ve been in economics, I have traction. I meaningful traction. And I understand your problem, which is you haven’t been able to raise because you’re not connected to that venture world. You didn’t go to Sanford. Your friends are not in VC, et cetera.

You’re maybe not even surrounded by wealthy, you know, bankers and consultants that can give you this 5-10K of pre-seed money we discussed earlier, right? Like. The reason if you went to one of these universities, it’s kind of easy to get the pre-seed money. It’s like all your friends are becoming doctors, lawyers, consultants.

They can all afford to give you 5-10k, and you have enough of them. You’re yourself. You’re in, you know,  Belo Horizonte instead of Sao Pao Rio, maybe not so much. You’re in whatever, Albany, New York, maybe not so much. And so we’ve had a few examples like that. There was a company called Milus in Brazil. The one we invested that amazing traction.

We helped them raise, they ultimately went public and we did it very well. TCG Players, this company from the electable Pokémon and Magic, the gathering marketplace based in Albany seeming completely non-traditional. The background of the foundry was a, a comic bookstore owner. Who just built his own software because it served his needs and then he, he brought it to all the other comic books or earners and created a massive marketplace but under the radar, not a category that was deemed sexy or big enough.

And yet ultimately we sold it eBay for like whatever, 300 million and did extra. So send me a LinkedIn InMail, make it easy for me, which means make sure that you include the deck, the traction, all the information I know to make the decision as to whether or not it’s worth a meeting or a conversation.

Green18: [00:29:39] If you’re finishing your studies today, what kind of job or company would you join to best train yourself to launch a fast growing tech startup later on? Is a place like McKinsey or investment banking still relevant if the goal is to learn to work with intensity and structure?

There are two path I would take. I suspect the best one is probably to join an early stage startup, like a series seed, A or B, not later than B startup, where you see what it’s like to be in an early stage startup and you learn the ropes. And the benefit of being a small company is you get to do a little bit of everything. You’re a jack of all trades, there’s fires to be brew burning everywhere.

You’re going to learn a lot. And a lot of that is directly relevant for your future job as founder, CEO. Now, I worried that when I was 21 in a graduate college that I wouldn’t be deemed seriously in a startup. And so I wouldn’t be McKinsey root. Which is also valuable. And I think McKinsey probably better than investment banking or consulting better than investment banking.

cause you’re also, you’re not just like a deck monkey and you’re actually using your brain. But I learned oral and written communication skills, public speaking skills, how to write a deck, and how to write a deck and how to present that deck is actually very key in the fundraising processes. A future founder.

So kind of also depends where your skills are. When I came out of college, I was Sheldon Cooper. I was shy, I was introverted, I was narcissistic and condescending, despite really lacking emotional intelligence, empathy, the ability to work with teams, et cetera. And so it played a very fundamental role.

Now, I think I probably would’ve learned the same skills if I joined a startup, and I probably even would’ve learned the same skills if I created a startup and fallen flat, flat on my face. I can even argue, just go ahead and create one today. You’re going to fail. But like the life lessons you’re going to learn and in that process are going to be great.

So I don’t think you can go wrong. I think all three are good. Meaning consulting about consulting or joining an early stage startup or creating your own. Now, I’m not sure I would join a late stage startup because I think then the job role is very defined. They’re also probably they’re willing to experience, but less likely to hire you.

And if they hire you, they’re going to give you like brunt jobs that you’re not going to learn that much at. So I think these would be the three probably would lean, if you’re entrepreneurial enough to go, just go do it. If, or, or the startup thing, but you know, can’t go wrong. And, and the benefit of the McKinsey type route is, let’s say you’d leave and then you fall flat on your face because you fail at your startup, you could always go back or maybe you can go to business school.

So it, it does if maybe it’s a little bit safer. And also if you need capital, like maybe you need the first 10-30 K of capital, then a job that actually pays something is better than a job that pays very little. So depends on life circumstances. All three are reasonably good. Okay.

TheJpstan on YouTube: [00:32:40] As a recent French graduate with a background in BA in finance, which countries do you think offer the most learning opportunities today in terms of ease of doing business, networking, potential, et cetera?

Honestly, the answer is easy. If you can be in the US, be in the US, you have a. Large population of wealthy individuals that are early adopters of tech. The market is bigger, valuations are higher, everything’s easier. So there is no doubt in my mind, I mean, if you were Chinese, maybe I would say go to China and if you’re in India, maybe go to India.

But if you’re French or whatever, anything other than Chinese and Indian, go to the us. It is the place to build startups. It’s still the hub of innovation. Everything’s easier, et cetera, except getting visas that can be painful. But there’s usually a path for making it work in some way, shape or form. So undoubtedly the US.

NotionXarma: [00:33:34] When will you launch the updated and new version of Fabrice AI? Second important question, as you are from France, what are the best places to do warm introductions and networking in the country not connected to the network?

First of all, Fabrice AI is constantly being updated. The. Every new piece of content that I upload on that is uploaded in my blog is added to the content repository of  Fabrice AI. And whenever GPT, because I’m using OpenAI as my back office it has a new upgrade, I upgrade or the new back office. So  Fabrice AI is constantly being updated. It’s not a static thing.

Now, the things that are being, that are being included, that are coming next I originally wanted a version. Well, next thing that’s coming probably is if you want, instead of having me send you texts, you can actually write the question or dictate the question, which you’ve already do today. Then you can have a Fabrice avatar speak the way I’m speaking to you right now, giving you the delivery coming in the next few months.

That works pretty well. The next thing I wanted to do, which is way harder, is have a live conversation with Fabrice AI that is interactive for either two things, just general questions, and I thought it would be by video, but I’ve been trying to code this for six months and the latency, and I tried multiple back off backhands, like I tried a Tavus, I’ve tried I’ve tried HeyGen, and you ask a question, I need to transcribe it in text, send it to Fabrice AI. Fabrice AI has to come up with the answer.

It has to be sent by API back to whomever’s creating the video and then displayed, and the latency is too high. Like, it feels asynchronous. It doesn’t feel like you’re having a real live conversation. And as a high IQ, fast speaking person, as you can figure it out from here, that latency kills me.

And, I’m not happy with the results. So I think the next version is going to be a voice only version, where you’re going to have my voice and you’re going to be able to chat by voice. And I think I can get the latency low enough that this can work. And again, next few months, the harder version. The third version that I’m working on right now is pitch Fabrice AI.

I’m going to ask you for your deck, for your story, for your background, and I’m going to give you feedback on your deck and see if I like it or not. And, and I’m going to write a debrief, which, and maybe it’ll lead to deals that FJ Labs like looks at. It’s really more of a public service humanity.

It’s more, right now we get 300 deals in ban. Every week we take 50 calls, and maybe I’ll take, and we take 5-7 second calls, and I’ll take a few of these. So five calls per week. So A. there’s 250 people that don’t even get a call. There’s 295 they don’t talk to. This would be an opportunity for everyone else to get feedback.

The thing is, I need to upload all of our existing transcriptions of calls, summaries, calls, decks to see if Fabrice AI can get smart enough to actually give actual advice for. So the advice is not valuable and, and not kind or whatever. It doesn’t make sense to do it. So it’s on the to-do list. This is slow.

I think we only, I only have like a hundred because we never did transcripts calls before, et cetera. So we only have a hundred right now uploaded so far. I think we need a couple hundred, maybe a thousand to get to a point where I’m going to be comfortable making it public. This one may be a year away, may I hope earlier, and I will only release it if I think it’s helpful.

It’ll be in the tab of Fabrice AI, it’ll be Pitch Fabrice AI or Pitch Fabrice or Pitch Me whatever. Working on it. This one is slow going. So no promises that it’ll even be released. But in the to-do list now. How would I network in France? Not very connected to France, even though I am French.

But first of all, I’d be in Paris, you know, the tech community of in, in France is in Paris. I would do the same way, like if I showed up in New York and I wanted to go start networking, I would go to like all the different tech events that are happening on a regular basis. You know, there’s like the Primary Conference, there’s the Collective Conference, there’s the whatever.

And the same thing exists in Paris, I’m sure. I’m sure that Station F is doing a lot of these and I’m sure that a lot of VCs have these meetups and gatherings. So I would like find the gatherings, find people connected there, and like little by little entwined myself into the community and like be the VCs, be the founders, et cetera.

Sure. You know, someone knows someone and can like start doing these intros. So, but yeah. Good luck in doing that.

[00:38:30]  Fabrice, any exciting travel coming up? What’s your favorite personal use of AI? Hi, Lacey on YouTube. So, my exciting travel or written plan this year was to go in March in theory to go train in Finse, Norway, which is a glacier in order to learn how to I guess ski kite surf.

So I can drag a hundred pound sled because I wanted to train to cross Greenland in 2026 by Snow Kite. I was going to snow kite across Greenland for like hundreds of miles or maybe a thousand miles or whatever, a thousand kilometers. But for that, you need to learn how to snow kite. You need to, you know with, with a hundred pound s flood, you need to figure out how to deal with polar bears.

I like get ready with how to learn how to use these shotguns, et cetera. Not that we’re hunting the polar bears just as defense in case they want to eat us. And polar bears contrarily to the Coca-Cola ads, or not friendly. They really want you eat your face. The problem is I ended up having terrible tennis elbow.

I guess the downside of playing paddle and tennis like 20 hours a week in the last like 45 years and lifting, and, you know, to remain fit is I tore 80% of my right tendon. So I haven’t been able to play tennis. I’ve been able to play paddle. So what I, so I had to cancel the trip. I had to cancel the trip because I couldn’t go and shovel snow.

Like the way these tents work is they have to be facing the wind and because you’re eating rehydrated food and you’re drinking water, you need to dig a trench, have snow to melt the snow in your pots to cook your food and have water. And I can’t, my elbow hurt too much. I can’t even open a bottle of water so I could not dig a trench.

And if I fell on the elbow snow kiting or ruining a ski, it could be catastrophic. So. I put a hiatus on the fun travel, decided, okay, priority number zero, fix my elbow. So I think PRP with like exomes or growth factors, I’m doing like peptides. I’m doing BPC 157, and TB 500. I’m doing isometric exercises and I’m hoping that it’s going to get fixed.

And once it’s fixed that I can restart life, then I will go back again. I will go back again in, into the crazy adventure travel mode. And question two, what’s your favorite personal use of AI lately? GPT? The deep research is mind bogglingly good. I asked to make like a, a financial analysis and the valuation analysis of two different hotels because I was thinking of buying one of them for completely unrelated reasons.

And it was like McKinsey level consultant analysis on like using different valuation models, figuring out who owned the history, how much it could be worth on a, on a per key basis of financial model based on where it was, et cetera. But like, I got in, in a 30 a mind boggling, extremely thoughtful and detailed analysis that would’ve taken like consultants weeks and, and not have mentioned tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars of research.

So doing profound, thoughtful, deep research analysis. it’s  mind boggling, and I’ve used it for many, many, many things. And I continue to use that. Like I, I’d stopped using any other tool. GPT and I were having ongoing conversations, and in fact, it leads to a lot of ideas and iteration, et cetera.

And now it’s like having my own McKinsey console in my, in my back pocket. And that’s my main use, frankly, for everything. So I guess it’s a boring answer cause I’m not using any other tools now.

If you want to build a little acute website Yeah. Use Lovable.Dev if you don’t know how to code, but you want to be, build something for fun. Yeah, use Cursor, right? Like, so there are these two I would probably add to the list, but yeah this is it.

Alex in LinkedIn: [00:42:39] How do you know a successful startup in US that has developed an instant booking solution for corporate meetings and events? So do you think there’s still room for competitors?

Yeah, there’s a lot of those that have existed in the past. I’ve looked at a few of these. Now is there room I would look at like density, like what types of rooms are they booking? What, where does this apply? Is it like specific offices? Is it in other people’s places in a marketplace? They have their own inventory. Is it concentrating in certain cities or there other verticals you could go after?

Like are they going after small startups that are renting small rooms or are they going after massive conference rooms or whatever where they need 400 people. Usually I would expect that there might, there would be cities or geographies where they’re not, there would be verticals of categories of potential clients that they’re not going after.

Now whether these are big enough and the fact they already have traction, is that a problem relative to, because obviously if like their client is whatever, McKinsey or Google they’re going to want to be global, et cetera, so they can bring them at different geographies over time.

So you have to think through what vertical niche you’re going after. But do I think there’s usually room? Yeah, absolutely. You can find a niche that no one else is going after and do it better than anyone else. Now, is it a big enough category to make it interesting for you? Yeah, who knows? And by the way, one thing to think about, people overestimate the risk of competition when they build a startup.

I don’t worry all that much about competition. You do your own thing, you do it well, you’re going to do well. The main reason startups fail is not competition. This is like number eight on the list is competition. The main reason startups fail is, number one, they don’t find product market fit.

You know, you don’t have a product that people are willing to pay or you can’t acquire pe customers that are willing to pay for it at a good enough price that you can make the unit economic number one, by far, you cannot find unit product market. Number two reason startups fail is the founders fight.

The co-founders disagree on the strategy. They have a fundamental disagreement of where they’re go, things are going, they break up, et cetera. It destroys companies. Now, two founders on average better than one, two founders fighting. It destroys the company. So higher success rate higher, higher probability of success if you have two founders.

But if they don’t, if they fight higher probability of like zero number three. Raising too much money at too high a price. Now this one is paradoxical, but if you raise too much money at too high a price and don’t grow into your valuation, it will kill the company. And so you need to be careful because Dan rounds often don’t happen because it triggers tide dilution and so the companies just die.

So these are the three main reasons companies die. Competition is low on the reasons why companies die. Now, obviously, marketplaces, competition matters more because it’s winner. It takes most where it takes all. But you, I still think, Alex, you can find a vertical that works.

TheJpstan on YouTube: [00:45:51] What made you decide for Turks & Caicos and not another island? I started in the Dominican Republic because I liked the raw authenticity of the place. So I was first in Cabarete because I like hiding in the North coast in a reasonably poor neighborhood. And I found this most beautiful piece of land ever. It was La Boca. There was a river going into the ocean. I had a mile of beachfront, 200 acres. I’m like, okay, this is so pretty. And there are a lot of other benefits. Like three hour flight from New York, an hour and a half from Miami, or an hour from Miami. Beautiful friendly people. Low cost of everything.

No murder rates reasonably low. Okay, this is, this makes sense. So I went to Dominican Republic. That was in 2013. It turns out that the Dominican Republic was more of a banana republic than I expected to be. Everyone there wanted bribes, the mayor of the city, the minister environment, the minister of tourism, the vice president, and also the mob wanted like protection money.

At first, I didn’t even know I existed. Like I, I did lead, especially at that time, had no kids, nothing. A very low key life. I was like, shorts, t-shirt, hanging around. You know, I had a broken down, hundred thousand mile like Ford Explorer, whatever. Very little by little people realized that I had wanted to invest tens of millions of dollars that was becoming relevant in the community.

I was paying for the education 10,000 kids, K through 12. I was building this like tech center to help people have access to internet. When there were problems or floods, I was donating food and like mosquito net, etc. And, as my profile increased unwittingly, it problems started, started happening.

Like we, we had attempted rapes of some of my female guests. We had burglaries. They poisoned one of my dogs. We got a full blown attack of people with shotguns. There was a shootout in my garden between the attackers of my guards and, and you know, I didn’t like the idea. I needed guards to begin with. But fortunately they attacked, they attacked the shift change.

So be two X number of guards. Plus it’s a place that a tropical diseases, you know, dengue, Zika, chikungunya, everyone that came to visit got a tropical disease at some point or other. And the more time went on, the more it was like giving me signals, okay, this is not the right place. And of course, my family didn’t like it.

They felt the waves were too big, the place was too poor, you know? And I lived in a very low key place. I like cockroaches, rats, et cetera. But it didn’t bother me. Like I liked, like roots grand level living. And so it was time to leave. And when it was time to leave, it was late 2018. And I considered where else I should go.

I should go. You know, Tulum is beautiful, but it’s not viable for me. And it’s too violent, too far from the airport of Cancun. So Mexico was not viable. Bahamas I didn’t like because it’s too far north.

And so Nassau is too developed. It’s actually too cold. In the winter, November, December, January, February, the water’s cold. The air was cold. Like it didn’t feel like a proper Caribbean destination, so it didn’t make sense. Bonaire, Aruba fell too far, I wanted direct flights. So like, things like St. Bart’s where you had to fly through St. Martin didn’t make sense. And Anguilla beautiful, but like didn’t sense. And so I chose Turks & Caicos and I’ve been here now for six years and it has been amazing, right? It’s like easily safe, the most beautiful water in the world. I build my little compound direct flights.

Everyone loves it. Now, I actually am considering leaving Turks & Caicos but not because anything’s funnily wrong in Turks & Caicos. Turks & Caicos has as many things right. But there are a few things that I’ve learned over the last six years that I would do differently. So right now, I’ll give you a few examples.

First of all, despite how beautiful and wonderful Turks & Caicos is. They are very anti-immigration and it’s a country that depends and lives off of tourism and you don’t feel welcome. You know, every time you go in through immigration, they’re like, and, and also you can be a one hour flight from Miami and a two hour immigration queue makes no sense.

They’re like, why are you here? Why? I mean, they treat you really badly. And if you’re a young, let’s say professional tennis player in your twenties or thirties coming here for a month between the offseason or paddle player, they’re like, you must be looking for a job. And they only give them a five day or seven day visit permit not 30 days.

If you want to hire anyone that’s not available on island, it’s impossible to get a work permit. They’re so anti-immigration and if you know, my neighbors here don’t particularly love me because they don’t like all, I mean, 85% of the neighbors love me because I brought like development.

I’ve increased I spend a lot of money renting their houses. Every year when I bring the FJ conference, when I bring my friends, you know, I bring a hundred people, I rent 30 houses. But a small subset of the community doesn’t like the development. They don’t like the changes, they don’t like the lights from the tennis and paddle court.

I also built my compound here on the east coast, which is where the wind is. And it’s great for me cause I love kiting, but a lot of my friends who don’t kite, they find it too windy. It’s also windy for tennis and paddle. So if I had to do it again, I’d probably pick an island where on average, they’re way friendlier to immigration.

They’re friendlier to a tourist. They want you there. And learning what I’ve learned, I’d probably be on the west coast with no wind protected. I could just take a little boat to go kiting, et cetera. So I’m actually toying the idea of moving. And I’ve either moved to Nevis in the St. Kitts and Nevis islands or Antigua and Barbuda, probably in Antigua.

 My current two choices, if I were to move, would be Antigua or Nevis. Both are amazing, well connected, safe, wonderful, very welcoming. And I learn, you know, I built, I’d buy a lot more land. I build my tennis center in a way that the lights don’t bother anyone. Like a lot of the lessons I learned from here, but TBD it’s on the to-do list.

You know, this, this year I’m thinking of making a lot of changes, right? As you may have seen in my blog, I’ve listed my apartment for sale. It’s too small to accommodate with my kids. The kids want to be near green spaces and parks, so I want to put them in Tribeca. And I’m currently Lower East side, so I’m selling my apartment.

I’m moving my apartment to Tribeca. I’m probably going to like, at some point sell this place in Turks, move to Antigua or Nevis. So a lot of changes in 25. I also thinking of like getting another kid. So I’m currently looking for a surrogate and yeah, so all this process ongoing.

So I think that title of 2025, which I will post of course in January 26th when I write my year interview will be New Beginnings. Now, of course, these are ideas. BD, what comes through, I, I put these ideas in the universe and like kind of go with the flow and see how it happens.

NotionXarma: Continuing the travel question. [00:52:57] What is your favorite place in India? So I understand OLX has a huge footprint there. You in the coming years, VC funding will love towards South Asia as it was a case for China.

Well what is my favorite place in India? It depends on if I’m going there as tourists for fun or if I’m going there for work, right? Like, so OLX is huge and they we’re part of Fabric Society.

You know, we were on tv during cricket. We have tens of millions of users every month. Literally, if you want to buy, sell anything it is the place to be. The company is in, is in Delhi, in the tech center. And I would go there probably a month, month and a half every year in Delhi to go meet the team, et cetera.

I’d go two, three weeks every quarter, basically. But Delhi is very polluted. It’s not the most scenic city. I wouldn’t be going there other than, other than for that reason. Mumbai for that is much better from a city perspective, but actually, you know, I think the entire country’s beautiful. I like going to ran them border, which is where you go, like glamping to look at the for the tiger.

I liked in the southern part of the country going to Madras and, and seeing the history both religious and, and the geology and the northern part of the country not far from Madras. I love Ranthambore. Obviously I went to the Taj Mahal as everyone does. So frankly love the country grid large, and it’s worth spending time to get to know and travel, et cetera.

Depends what you’re looking for. OLX happens to be in Delhi because my country manager, who’s the number two at eBay India, became obviously my CEO of OLX India. Was based in Delhi and we built the entire team there. But Delhi would probably not be on my list of places to go and visit for fun.

Now, Indian venture capital has been exploding. It’s completely on tear. India is growing. A lot of people are moving their supply chains out of China into India, and we’re investors in SMB enabled we’re investors with a company called Zyod which is helping apparel manufacturers like sell to Europe by doing the prototyping and, and helping them deal with customs and payment and finding clients, et cetera.

So that is a mega trend. Venture capital in India is exploding. Now the question of course is Southeast Asia. Yeah. To a less extent, right? Like yeah, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, we’re investors in a friendly fund called FEBE, which is doing really well there. But I don’t expect a huge explosion in venture capital in Southeast Asia.

I think India for sure. India is the next wave to go. It’s already happening, but not, not so much more not the rest of that East Asia just yet.

Lewis: Off topic. [00:55:48] I want to know how you lost your French accent? What is your secret? So language, people don’t realize all languages, by the way, follow a mathematical formula called ZIPF law.

ZIPF for the most common word in the English language is the, T-H-E. It’s 4% of the words in used. Second most common word in the English language is half as often used. The 100th most common word is 100th as often used. The 20th thousand most common word is one 20th thousand as often used. So, you know, sum of n equals one infinity to the, so it’s one to the divided by key to the power n, right?

Like, so the top 15 a hundred words of the language, about 15% of the language, the top 300 words of the language are 95% of the language top 1500 or 99%. So if you learn, frankly, even 500 words, you’re good. Most erudite intellectuals, you know, if you think of like Neil Ferguson, whatever, will only use 300 unique words per day.

If you learn 300 words, frankly, you’re good. So what I did when I came to Princeton, I was 17, I did a very strong French accent, and people were making fun of the way I spoke. I decided I was studying mathematics and economics. And I was not being taken very seriously. And because I started like this people thought I was less smarter than I actually really was.

And I’m like, oh, if the US is the future of my economic destiny, I need to learn English perfectly. So what I did is I took the top 1500 words in decreasing order of frequency in English language. And at that time it was not online. Now you can do it with Google, you know, or GPT. At that time I had to go and like find resources at the Firestone Library in Princeton.

And then I’m like, okay, for each of these I’m going to break it down with the underlying syllables and, and replicate the sound and understand exactly how you move your mouth in order to replicate the sound. You make the word. So would sort of like ego dobies, it’s at noob next, right? For mathematics.

So the way, for instance, in, in English, you do the T-H sound is you put your tongue between your teeth and we don’t have that sound in French. So it was “the”, “thus”, “therefore”, “that”, and then eventually with repetition practice it became the, thus, therefore that or “Hs”, we don’t have that. So, “ah, he add the out in the amptons” becomes Harriet has house in the Hamptons.

So what I did was one hour a day, two words a day, recording myself, looking mechanically at work, playing it back until I could replicate the sim very scientific, mathematical way of learning the language. I also learned one way of expressing future, past and present. And then one way to ask questions.

So simple grammar. You know, like in in French for instance, you have all these tenses, et cetera. You actually don’t need all of them. You need one way of expressing the past point of asking question. And by combining that with being an obviously in the US and getting feedback and taking an English for non-eighties figures literature class where every week I read a book of like three, 400 pages and wrote a 15, 20 page essay.

Within two years I learned English perfectly. So by 19 I was good. And I’ve kept working on it. When I add new words, because I read a lot. There are many words I didn’t know how to pronounce. And so I keep adding them to the vocabulary. And by the way, this is something I’ve used for other languages.

I speak Spanish fluently as well. And I speak Mandarin reasonably well. And I spoke it fluently when I learned it. I haven’t practiced it in a long time, but I’m still reasonable at Mandarin. And so this approach works in every language. But you know, it’s not the most fun and you need a lot of you need a lot of dedication, right?

People often say, oh, I can’t do that. I can’t learn language, I can’t learn to dance, I can’t paint. That’s not true. You can do anything. You have chosen not to allocate the time to become good at this because it doesn’t capture your interest. You’re too busy or whatever. But whatever it is you want to do, you can accomplish.

You just need to put your mind to it and decide that this is where you want to be focusing on. cause most people don’t want to allocate the time. So most people have come to the us. You know, if you’re a guy maybe having the cute French accent ” who’s the woman?”” why would I lose the accent the women are throwing themselves at me?”

But that, that wasn’t what I was optimizing. I was optimizing for how can I be the most compelling pitch person when I go and sell my startup and raise money, sell the vision and the employees, the founders, the investors, the process, et cetera.

And so that’s why I wanted to learn English with a perfect accent, even though possibly to my comparative disadvantage when I was going to go dating and wooing the women. But it’s a question of like the effort people were willing to make. If you’re willing to do it, you can do it.

Liz: [01:00:52] What is on your target list for climate related investment opportunities? So, there is a, the good news, first of all, I’m profoundly optimistic about climate. The decrease in the cost of batteries, the decrease in the cost of solar panels, the decrease in most of the technologies that are leading an explosion in greenification of our systems, like heat pumps, et cetera. Now, what I like is finally, software is coming to this category.

It used to be you needed like billions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars to open a plant. But now you can create marketplaces. So the types of things we’re investing in were a company like Tetra. Tetra is a Boston-based marketplace to help people replace their heat pumps, to improve their energy efficiency. So it’s a marketplace, it’s an acid like model, and it is aligned with the climate change movement. So back in the day, if you wanted to hire a contractor to change your heat pump, you would go to Angie’s List or Thumbtack. You would take photos, you’d get like, say what you want and people would come in at your place and give you a quote.

You don’t even know how to pick one very well. You pick one and then typically they overcharge. You take longer than you think. You’re disappointed and it’s painful. It’s very painful. It’s painful for you, but it’s also painful for the 10 people who keep showed up and only one of them got the job.

Tetra, what they do is like, you take a few photos, they’ve automated the process, they are the experts. They pick the very best contractor. They say, this is the work, this is the amount, and you’re done. They will, you will pay that price if nothing else. And then they are going to go and send the person. It gets done, it gets paid all good.

And so these types of things we’re investors in solar installation marketplaces or investors in grid management. Marketplace is like leap that is connecting like the batteries of your Tesla car into the grid as surge as like surplus for the grid. I mean lots of these types of software type companies. So lots of opportunities.

Oh, I got two questions. Let me first ask. [01:02:55] Did you do your long hike through Greenland that you wanted to do? I’m in a small marketplace in Holland last time gave tips on onboarding less sellers and ensuring all sellers have decent revenue on our platform.

Okay. So what did I do? Well, I didn’t do the Greenland trip, so I wanted to do the Greenland trip. I didn’t do the training because of my tennis elbow. I wasn’t able to go and train in Finse for the trip. So the trip is supposed to be in 20, in 2026, probably delayed to 27 or 28. I was also thinking of maybe moving into, and so Greenland for a variety of reasons but TBD, but why do I do these trips?

I like being disconnected from the world, right? We live in a hyperconnected world where all day long we have WhatsApp, iMessage, telegram, signal, emails. It’s all busy all the time. And when you go to a place completely off grid where. 10 days a week, two weeks, you have no meetings, you have no WhatsApp, you have no connectivity to the world.

It’s a real privilege. You’re like, resets your mind. You think through your, and you realize in these moments like how grateful you are. You have the life you have because you come back in these places where you’re completely disconnected from anything, you know, if you want to poop, you have a shovel to make big a hole and you come back and there’s like electricity and hot water and toilets and like amazing food.

So it’s exercising gratitude. It’s like mindfulness. It’s like, to me it’s like an active, the Vipassana retreat where I’m often alone with my thoughts in these moments where you’re very active for like many hours a day. And I love it. I think more people should find ways to be disconnected for longer.

It would be great for their mental health and for also understanding where they’re at, reconnecting and, and it’s a sort of amazing ideas. So I do it both in the cold and in the hot. I need to fix my elbow, and then we’ll see when and where it goes.

[01:04:59] Do I have tips or opinions on short-term revenue versus long-term brand trust?

I think I probably missed a question. I’ll go back there. When you’re starting a marketplace, you want to highly curate your sellers. The biggest mistake you can make is have too many sellers because you don’t have enough demand for them.

So many of them are not going to be engaged. They’re going to churn, and many of them are going to be low quality. So what you want to do is you want to curate the best sellers possible. And then bring them demand. And once that has worked, then you could get a few more sellers. But I, I absolutely curate my seller quality.

Otherwise you end up with a very bad you know, experience. And if you have a bad experience, you know, you don’t have the magic of the marketplace. People are going to churn and not, and leave and not continue to use you.

Green’s 18: [01:06:03] If you’re building a tech company like Zingy today, would you still raise VC early or bootstrapping, knowing cases like BeReal were the founder really benefited from $500M exit?

Well, the answer of course is that it depends, right? Zingy did not raise VC money. It was 2001. I wanted to raise VC money, but like the tech industry had imploded. Every VC I called and I’m like, “Hey, I’m building this BDC telecom company” in a market where every BDC company, like ETOs, web Van, I all got under.

And all the telcos like MCI welcome, got under. I don’t think I finished the sentence that hung so. Through necessity, I ended up building a company from whatever, zero, I mean, missed payroll 27 times, lived in New York, and like $2 a day for a year, 18 months, slept on the couch at the office. It was really hard and disastrous.

I would’ve liked raise money, I couldn’t. But ultimately I was able to, I own most of the company at the end. The issue is, yeah, don’t raise too much capital. If you can try to be capital efficient, you can have multi-billion dollar exits and make very little money because you’ve raised too much money, looted yourself too much along the way and didn’t grow into the valuations you expected.

 I mentioned earlier one of the biggest mistakes founders make is they raise too much money at too high a price. When you do that, you increase the price at which you need to exit dramatically ,and that’s risky because maybe not all the stars align. And so you can get a $500 million exit and make very little money.

So your first time founder, a VC says, yeah, I’ll invest 50 million or whatever, a hundred million at 300 pre and someone else is like, I’ll invest 20 million at 80 pre, or whatever. You’re like, oh, of course I should take the a hundred. But not really, because if you don’t actually need the capital in the prior case, if you don’t get him four or $500 million in minimum, you’re not going to, you’re, you might be screwed.

So raise the right amount of money at the right price, otherwise you actually might decrease your under or your, your fundamental outcome. Now, some companies you can bootstrap, some companies you can’t bootstrap, right? Like if you need capital for customer acquisition or servers or whatever, well then you need the capital.

But I would try to be capital efficient. So I would try to have a pre-seed of less than a million, a seed of 2- 4 million an A of like 7-10 million or 7-12, a B of 15 to 25, and then you can be profitable. I would try to avoid businesses where you need tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to get a profitability because then you might be in that situation.

Nicole: [01:08:39] What advise you for home care marketplace founder who has found product market fit, ran outta mining 23, revived 23 GMV 2x 2022 and we cut burn, founder funded. Product market fit because for customer grew yeah, I mean, you’re going to need to be able to convince people that, well, maybe it’s just a reset, right?

Like you re raise as though you were a seed company and you may have to do a reset of your calves, et cetera, et cetera to get it going again. Because you haven’t grown probably because you focus profitability, it doesn’t feel like a venture backable company. It doesn’t feel like a venture company versus being maybe a lifestyle business.

So either you find a way to like. Show that if you had capital, you can grow by growing by like six months, for six months or something like that, at like 200% year on year or something. Or you do whatever it takes to reset and you know, you’re re-raising a seed round, even though wipes out the prior holders, you can prove it coming.

I mean, you clean up your cap table such that you can get going again. We’ve done that a few times. We were in a car marketplace called Clutch in Canada, at 700 million valuation. It hit a wall. The investors didn’t want to do the next round.

We completely recapped it at 5 pre. We wiped out all the prior investors. The people put their money in. So we reinvested like 15 to five pre. We looted the founders, so maybe 30 posts effective where the founders having 30% and we restarted the company and now it’s doing extremely well.

So there are ways to do it. Given that you have 40% of growth this quarter over the prior quarter, and again, I don’t know if scale right? Like I don’t know what GMV we’re talking about. We’re talking, you know, a million GMV a month, it’s different. We’re talking 150 K and it’s different we’re talking 15 K, right? So based on that, I think the answer might vary a little bit, but I would, if you think this requires capital, I would do whatever it takes to get the company funded and there’s usually a price at which case you can get the company funded.

[01:10:55] What are the future big trends in AI and especially with consumer usage?

 While everyone’s seeing AI take over the world in every category. And one thing where people were underestimating and I think is going to be huge is humanoid robotics. And there are a lot of companies right now like Figure AI starting to play a role in industry like figure as robots in the BMW factory like in the chain. And they have like contracts for like replacing human workers in like warehouses. That’s about picking and packing warehouses to bring the packages to the whatever UPS drivers or delivery drivers, FedEx or whomever. And these things are way closer than people think. And so when do I think it gets into the consumer home?

I think that versions coming in 2, 3, 4 years will be for wealthy individuals. So the Justin’s future, but in 5, 6, 7 years, do I think these things will be cheap enough and more, many, many more people will have them and within a decade they’ll become placed. Absolutely!

So I’d say that humanoid robots probably the category that people are underestimating is coming in the more recent future that people expect.

Being founder funded is a great idea, by the way. I mean, you can be a completely bootstrap company and you own most of the equity and you don’t always need capital venture capital. I mean, those are the questions someone asked me earlier is like, should you be raising, should you bootstrap or raise venture capital?

The way I think is if I’m raising capital, I’m taking dilution. Let’s say I’m raising and I’m taking 25% dilution, am I going to create more value with this 25% dilution than 25%? Right? And so if you’re going to quadruple the value of the company and you took 25% of dilution completely worth doing, if it’s close, definitely don’t do it.

So that’s the way I kind of think about it. Yeah. Clutch is amazing. They’re Carvana of Canada. They’re, they’ve, they’re crushing it.

[01:13:12] For personal or small retail, which AI tools do you believe are actually worth paying a subscription for today? Depends on your needs. For sure I use I use GPT for everything and I pay for it.

But I even stopped using Midjourney because I just used Dall-E to create my images. If you want to build a website or probably pay for Lovable, you want to code basic things I pay for Cursor. That’s kind of it. Frankly, GPT is enough, right? That’s what I use for a hundred percent of everything, and it works really well.

[01:13:49] What do you seek in founders for pre-revenue Startups? I don’t usually fund founders with pre-revenue startups. I want a modicum of product market fit. So I expect you to like figure it. I’ve spent some amount of money together, like 15, 20, 30 K in net revenues to show that you have union economics that work, and then now you need capital to scale.

The only case where I would do it is if you’re a second time successful founder. And I like what you’re doing or if your background is so extraordinary that it’s worth taking a founder bet. But other than that, I probably wouldn’t do a pre pre-revenue start-up. But yes, if you were like the first guy who built Open AI and you’re building something related to that, yes, I’m probably going to be willing invest pre revenue.

NotionXarma: [01:14:34] What is the biggest turn down for the VC while seeing the pitch deck? What is the biggest green flag as well? What is the red flag when cold connecting with VC people? How to approach that?

The red flag in cold connecting VC people, and I get a lot of these messages. Hey, I have a great idea. Can I send you a deck?

Hey, I have an amazing idea. Could I get feedback on it? Not even replying. You are making it hard for me. I need to say yes, I’m interested. Send me a deck. You need to send me a message that says, this is who I am. This like one line, my background, what I’m building, the traction I have, and here’s the deck.

And if you can do that, you will get a, a proper reply. If it’s more like, Hey, can I send you a deck? No, not even gonna bother reply. Like, you made it hard for me. I don’t have time. I’m getting literally 300 of these messages a day. Now within the deck itself and I have a playing the unicorns episode on what the Perfect deck looks like.

Yeah. Have, like what is the idea, what is the background of the team? What is the product? You’re, what is the solution you’re bringing to the market? What is the attraction you have? What’s the business model that you’re going to use, and what is the use of capital? Right? Like, pretty simple. You have like 10 deck, 10 pages, maybe 15 to show why this is an attractive idea.

No big red flags. Again, in general, I prefer things that are post-launch, post revenue, post product market fit, not small. Obviously I’m doing a seed investor. But not just an idea .

I think we’ve caught up here. So let me go back to the earlier, the messages submitted by email. Note that for some reason the thing is going to jump.

This is Andrew. [01:16:17] Can you address the risk and crossover funds? Andrew seemed to be very thinking the idea of crossover funds were good. I’m not sure crossover funds are such a great idea actually.

A crossover fund is a fund that invests both in the private markets, so maybe late stage pre IPO, whatever. And in the public markets. Most of the people that have done that in the 21 bubble were like Fidelity Code two, et cetera. They’re like, Hey, we’re going to be public anyway. In these companies, when they go public, let’s go invest in private play.

I would say they’ve been poor private investors. They overpaid, they didn’t really understand what they were doing. And the key success factors investing privately are pretty different from the public side. So we, at FJ Labs, one of our philosophy is the second the company goes public, that we typically were locked up for six months, once the lockup expires, we sell everything.

And the reason we sell everything, it’s not that we don’t want to believe in the company anymore, is we lose our proprietary access to the founders, right? Like before they go public, I can call up the CEO, it’s like, Hey, are you doing, how can I help? Et cetera. The minute they’re public, they can’t give you any proprietary information.

And so I’ve become one and a tiny public investor in a ginormous company. Like, I don’t have any edge, so I’m going to sell. There’s Fidelity that owns, you know, billions of the company’s stock. Their Atlas are covering it. That’s going to be their course. So crossover funds don’t really strike me as a brilliant idea in general.

Now, some companies you want to hold forever. That’s true, right? If you have Facebook or Google or maybe OpenAI, doesn’t make sense all forever, they keep compounding. Many companies, I find that’s not true. When they go public, the growth rate is inflected. They’re no longer growing a hundred percent year on year.

They’re growing 15%, 10%. And does that fit my profiles? A venture investor where I want to get like 10 X’s and 30% compounding? Not really. So I’m very happy selling. I think most funds should not be crossover funds, different categories. I have Sequoia once they ended, they become a crossover fund. Once to keep holding when they’re public, some of the names fine and they have a team that scale to do it. But I don’t think in general it’s a very good idea.

Dan: On a flight back to London from India, listening via Starlink. [01:18:43] Any view on Indian VC opportunity?

Yeah. In India is amazing. Right now we’re seeing an, an explosion in manufacturing companies.

We’re wondering whether or not manufacturers can be VC backable, even though they’re not tech companies because they’re scaling so quickly. We’re thinking through D two C companies in India. We’re thinking through SMB enablement. The last one of course is core focus. But yeah, Indian VCs, I mean, there’s more and more a matrix just renamed themselves.

There’s Xcel, there’s Sequoia, and of course the homegrown like nexus. So huge and growing.

[01:19:29] I have enough profit to hire an additional C-suite person. I am stuck between a CTO and a CFO. I cannot afford both. But I need someone to take someone to take financial responsibility, reduce workload and answer seller and tax authority questions. A CTO is also very important because we need someone 24/7 for IT infrastructure. Now leading IT projects myself cannot code anything. Have basic IT knowledge.

Well, I think it depends. I don’t know if you’re building tech start-up, if you need a CTO. If you’re not building a tech startup and maybe you’re doing whatever financial functions, et cetera, what would up upload you the most? I would do, I mean obviously everything is a cost benefit analysis, but what is it that, that you think frees up most of your time and is most value added for you in terms of you being able to go and create more value somewhere?

Based on what I’m reading here, it might be the CFO, but it depends on the type of business, right? If you’re building, you’re building an AI start-up obviously, it’s the CTO.

[01:20:23] What do you see as the future for companies like Alan (French Unicorn) nearly 10 years in €500 million raised, still unprofitable, operating on tight margins, valued at €4.5B?

I have no idea what Alan does, so it’s hard for me to opine.

Are VCs eventually going to push for a cast-out? Or maybe I missed something?

No idea. But yes, there are companies that raise too much money, too high a price that are not profitable and they’re going to have it find it really hard to exits. I think Mistral might actually fall into the same category.

 I don’t see Mistral winning against OpenAI and everyone else. They’ve raised that huge valuations, they are not profitable. So yeah, could they still be zeros despite the fact they’re technically unicorns? Absolutely! Don’t know enough about that company to have opine, so I don’t know.

[01:21:15] From your perspective, what skill or type of service is the easiest to sell today is a freelance consultant?

The problem with consulting is getting people to hire you. So it depends where are you connected, who are the customers you can easily get? If you had corporate customers where you can teach them how to use AI effectively that probably is the one big area of growth right now where every company needs to have an AI strategy and the big companies have no idea what to do.

And it’s especially true in places like France or whatever where France Telecom, has no idea what to do, you know, how to implement AI and how your salespeople, their customer service people, et cetera, should all be using AI, what tools to use, how to use them, et cetera. So probably would be a growing category of freelance consulting.

But again, if you’re a pro a designer, self-design skills, your programmer sell program.

So you go back to the questions asked by email. [ 01:22:20] On Ask me Anything, if you give a three to five year Bitcoin projection, what will it be worth in 2030?

Hard to say, you know? So Bitcoin is actually not the crypto asset I focus on the most because Bitcoin, it’s digital gold. And does digital gold have a role? Absolutely the same way gold has a role in the world, right? If you live in Argentina or Venezuela or frankly China or places the capital controls where there’s a history of either arbitrary confiscation of your assets, like in Argentina, they like converted all your dollars to pesos by force.

So a fixed exchange rate, or they confiscated the savings assets. Or if you have high inflation, you know, if you’re in Zimbabwe back in the day, or Venezuela. Instead of saving in diamonds is hard, right? It could be stolen. They change the value, et cetera. Actual physical gold, you know, it’s heavy, it’s big, it can be stolen.

So actually having a savings mechanism. Makes a lot of sense. And so if I was in these countries, I would have a lot of Bitcoin because it’s probably easier unless you somehow magically had access to the US S&P500 and stocks, et cetera. I would also have USDC or USDT, but stable coins in these countries make a lot of sense.

They don’t earn anything, but they’re useful because again, store value means of exchange in a way more stable than the underlying local currencies. But how much is Bitcoin worth in the future? Really depends on demand, right? Bitcoin itself doesn’t have yield like gold like art. It has value because people deem it to have value.

So it’s completely driven by supply and demand dynamics. And so if people demand it, it goes up and if not, it goes down. And I imagine that in a world where fiat currencies and governments are spending too much that non fiat assets will increase in value. Yes. Could it be hundred thousand dollars, $500,000 a million.

Yes. Could be 10 million, absolutely. But I don’t it because it depends on the general macro and the choices of a fiat currency governments are going to make. I’m not gauging it, and that’s not the type of crypto I’m investing. I’m investing in assets that have real business models and use cases.

You know, think of io.net where we’re taking all the GPUs of, of gamers around the world to create an alternative to running AI simulations. Unlike whatever AWS or NVIDIA data centers I’m investing in Aave. Where it’s a lending marketplace because they’re buyers and sellers and they take commission, there’s a business model.

Or Uniswap, like exchanges where there’s business model. So I invest more in that rather than in things like Bitcoin. But Bitcoin has value because it is useful as a savings mechanism, especially outside of the developed world.

The company I’m building called Midas. The main value of Midas is it’s allowing people outside of the traditional of the west of like the US or even partial Europe, to have access to savings products. So if you have SDC and SDT instead of earning zero, you can earn the T, you can buy T-bills, you can buy different funds that have different types of yields.

And ultimately I’m going to launch like S&P 500, bonds, gold, the Vix, whatever. And so my MIdas is Robinhood for crypto, and it’s with one click, you can connect your wallet and you can buy these different assets. So right now we have three funds. We have three products where we’re regenerating yield.

We’ll have many more in the future doing really well, not currently available to the US because the regulatory breach sheet must not change. And frankly, it’s less needed. You can go to Robinhood. You know, you can buy socks and E-Trade or whatever, so you don’t necessarily need this. But we will launch it. There’s a lot of capital on chain whenever the time comes. So that’s more what I’m interested in.

[01:26:35] What do you think of initiatives such as WorldCoin or similar? I don’t know WorldCoin, so no comment.

[01:26:43] Loved the shutout story in the Domingo Republic. Do you have any other crazy adrenaline pumping stories from your adventures?

Well, I crossed Costa Rica from east to west by mountain bike. So I came from the Atlantic, went to the Pacific, and so I was just mountain biking at my guide, my tent, my sleeping bag, my water filtration system. And in the middle I decided to go whitewater rafting. I went whitewater rafting in the Qua River.

So it’s all fine. It’s like class three, class four, whatever. And at some point the water level’s high. The guy’s like, Hey, if you’re a good swimmer, you can do the rapids with your body. The water level’s high enough, you’re not get hit any anyways. So I went in the water and started swimming and everything.

So I’m like, woo. And all of a sudden I was taken down in a whirlpool straight down to the bottom of the river. And, and I actually can really hold my breath a long time with, if I do hypertrophic breathing, and I hyper oxygenate my brain, my blood. I can hold my breath like six, seven minutes. At rest without doing anything probably three minutes, but like, this is a moment where like I’m not ready for it. I’m like, whoo-hoo, my heart rate is pumping. I get thrown to the bottom of the river and impossible to move. I tried as hard as I can to go on the side to get out of the whirlpool, impossible to move. And so I’m underwater limited oxygen, and I’m like, okay, if I panic, I’m going to die.

Let’s just hold my breath. Let’s just say where I am. I have a life vest. I have air in my lungs. At some point I know through thermodynamics that these whirlpools are unstable. They, they were not sustainable. It’s not going to stay there. At some point it’s going to stop. And because I’m buoyant, my head will cross the water.

I’ll go back and float. And by the way, as Larry was underwater, I saw the raft, I saw the other people, everyone’s going, and I’m stuck at the bottom of that river. So I’m holding my breath and I’m holding my breath, and I’m holding my breath. I have no idea for how long. It felt like hours, but I’m sure it was seconds.

And at some point I just couldn’t hold anymore. I started, I saw it swallowing water throwing up. It was like phase one of drowning. And as I, I was about to pass that, my head crossed the water. So yeah, that was whatever, 20 years ago. But less than that, 18 years ago. Very, very happy to be alive today.

That was really close. I also fell head first from like a 20 foot cliff. Extreme skiing with no helmet, only rocks at the bottom, like, and I fell by luck. In between two. There was rocks there. Rocks there in my head, fell between them right into the one place. There was powder, the Boop and nothing happened to me.

And I was like violently shaking like this. My teeth were cracking like in many other parallel universes. And the multiverse, I’m dead. I think I was 19. What happened is my dad had been cheap and he bought me cheap bindings and the lateral pressure as I was crossing, it’s a place you’re not supposed to ski, right?

You’re crossing to go to the glacier, you’re going to ski and there’s a massive cliff. And the lateral pressure on my boots on the skis made both bindings click and that’s why I fell headfirst. So I was shouting. I was violently shaking for like a long time. Took me a long time with my, to calm myself with my breathing.

I put my skis on, I went all the way to the bottom. I wanted to buy the most expensive air bindings I could find. And went back skiing again. Otherwise, I’m like, you know, I don’t want this to be like, create trauma.

Dan Jones: [ 01:30:27] You prefer repeat versus first time founders? See correlation with repeat experience and returns?

I like repeat founders because there are two types of repeat founders. You have the repeat founders who failed the first time. I actually love them because typically they’ve learned all the lessons of what not to do on someone else’s dime. And because they’ve learned like the type of ideas, I’m not sure, like not to raise too much or too high race, et cetera, they, they are the highest probability of success.

The first time field founders of any of the founders I’ve had. The second time founders, who have succeeded in a big way the first time is different. They’re like, okay, I’ve made it. Now we go big or we go home. So the average return is the same as first time founders for them, the second time founders who failed the first sign have higher returns the first time founders.

The second time founders who failed the, who succeeded really well the first time have the same returns as first time founders. Because when they make it, they make it very big. But, more often than not, they fail because they go after crazier, bigger ideas. So a higher failure rate by when they make it, they make it very, very big.

And, but because the return is the same, I like all three. I like first time founders. I like second time founders who’ve been successful the first time, if they’re still hungry and they want to go crazy. And I like failed founders who’ve learned in someone else’s dime, preferably, but I will back my own first time failed founders if I feel if they treated me right.

If they understood why they failed, it was like, oh, they didn’t find product market fit. If they’re thoughtful about what went wrong , and they’re going to try to address it so it doesn’t happen again this side. So if I can believe that, I’m happy to back them again.

Yamini: [01:32:22] Just from a fashion perspective as my previous question was, why do you think it’s harder to find funding as VC or hesitant? I can approach FJ Labs. I tried LinkedIn but doesn’t go through.

You can send me a, an InMail. But the problem is we are already investors in Vinted, we’re investors in Pickle, et cetera.

And we’re also investors in another, I can’t remember, fashion marketplace in the US. So likelihood that we’ll invest is low. If you have real traction you know, like couple hundred K a month in GMV, for sure, we’ll reply. If you’re at zero, probably not. Send me an InMail, put the doc, put the traction and it should go through an InMail with no problem.

But our likelihood of investing is load now. Right now there’s not much appetite for VC, for investing in fashion because of what I discussed earlier. Farfetch, Poshmark is handled really well, real, real, et cetera. So you need something really different to attract the attention of people.

Greens: [01:33:28] In your view, what is the most important trait or skill for a founder – being emotionally stable, able to handle the extreme stress, something else entirely?

 I can tell you it’s not IQ. It’s great to be smart, but like the smartest people act sometimes get in their own way because they want the perfect answer as opposed to just executing and trying something and throwing enough spaghetti on the wall until it hits.

I would say it’s two things are necessary. Ambition, because you have a lot of people that are not ambitious. So if you want to be a founder, you need to be ambitious. And grit and tenacity and you have a lot of people that are ambitious. You know, they go to whatever, McKinsey and Harvard Business School or whatever, but they actually don’t have the grit and tenacity because in the world of McKinsey and school, getting a doing well is easy.

There’s a very clear framework for what it’s like to do well. And I’ve had some people that have like valedictorian. To McKinsey to HBS, top of their class. And then they go raise money for the startup and they get their teeth kicked in and they don’t find product market fit and they do not deal with it well.

That well with that at all, they’ve never failed in their entire life. And so when they find actual failure, they can’t deal with it. And so you need ambition mixed with grid and tenacity. You’re not going to take no for an answer. You’re willing to eat glass. You’re willing to get a lot of no’s and have a lot of doors closed in order until you figure it out.

Now other skills that are helpful, of course, public speaking, sales, right? If you can communicate very effectively what your vision is, it’s going to be easier to raise money. It’s going to be easier to attract a team, it’s going to be easier to get PR to do business deals, et cetera. And then if you know how to execute, because you know the category, you’re going to do better.

So you know how to build the business and get the BD deals done, et cetera. So. I think these are the four key ones that were, that, that are the most important. Other things, you know, obviously I like high IQ, but it doesn’t make that much of a difference at the end of the day from life outcome perspective or anything else.

Yeah, these are probably the four that I would focus on the most on. I now emotionally stable. Yeah. I like emotionally stable, but you know, some people are arrogant and angry, except like Steve Jobs is an asshole. I’m not sure he was emotionally stable and yet, you know, we’re Travis. I prefer it though.

My philosophy is don’t back assholes. Life is too short. Only want to work with people I’d like to work with. So it doesn’t get in the way of success, but definitely it would get in the way of working with me. I want you to be kind and loving.

[01:36:11] Would you be open for a lunch in New York so I can bring all the questions I have for 45 minutes?

Usually the answer to that would be no. Because I just don’t have time. Right. The problem is I get like 300 emails a day. I have like eight to 14 calls every day, and most of them 30 minute calls where I, like, I am beyond busy. And so the time I have to spend one-on-one, one person, 45 minutes is de minimis.

And by the way, that’s part of the reason I built Fabrice AI. This way people can interact and, and, and get a lot of the same advice without needing my time. So answer is most likely no, unless you actually were building something that I was interested in backing and there was an action item right now. So actually, if you were looking for an investment, then maybe Yes, much less likely.

If it’s just like chitchat, I just don’t have time. My life is too busy. But with my professional life and my personal life, now that I have like a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old

Ayoolaoluwa. Okay, sorry about that. [01:37:13] Working in marketplace tailored for football (soccer); retro boots, kits, and memorabilia since current options are messy, unverified, not built for their culture. In your experience, what makes a niche marketplace like this one breakout and go big globally?

So first of all, I’m not sure I would go global versus going, you know, narrow in the US only. If you are authentic to the category and you know, the sellers and, and what you’re building really resonates with people because you are verifying the quality.

Your category structure is more nuanced of what you find in eBay or Facebook marketplace, et cetera. You’re way more likely to succeed. Now, I would start by going the very best sellers in category and saying, Hey, I built this. It’s perfect for you. Please bring your items over and don’t get too many of them.

You want to bring them enough buyers. But I would, I would get curated high quality supply. I’d index it on Google with SEO, I’d index it on the agents with AEO or agentic engine optimization, get in the LLMs. I spent some money in marketing and make sure that it works. So I suspect that’s the way I would go and build it.

And it’s worked many times before. We’ve seen it with TCG Player for collectibles or, I mean specifically for Magic the Gathering. And for Pokémon, by the way, what they’ve done is they built a POS that they gave away for free to the comic book stores in exchange for putting their inventory on the marketplace.

So it could very well be if the sellers are professionals, you give them an SA B2B SMB management tool that they like. But yes, I would absolutely double click and double down on the cultural verification elements to, to build it. Probably would build the yes.

Greens: [01:39:05] Will the Aske Me Anything will be available for replay later?

Yes. All of my ask me anything including this one, I will post on my blog on Tuesday, including a little summary of the questions that were asked, and more importantly, a full transcript. And it’ll be on Spotify and iTunes as well. And the YouTube video of us will be available there. So yes, absolutely, including the transcript will be available starting next Tuesday.

Maybe final question that was submitted by email and then we can see if we can wrap it up because almost two hours.

Fulvio: [01:39:44] Is artificial intelligence dangerous for humanity? Will it increase unemployment? Should countries create rules to prevent that? Can we master something that might be beyond this?

Very common question actually is like, are we going to have a job apocalypse because of AI? Is it going to be crazy unemployment? And it’s the end of the world as we know it. And what should we do about it? And all these Luddite time thinking. So first of all, let me reassure you, it will not lead to any of these bad outcomes .

Like people have been worried that technology will destroy jobs since 200 years ago when the Luddites destroyed all the mechanical looms. And people were worried about that when with the Industrial Revolution. People were worried about that 20 years ago, et cetera. Let me give you a very concrete example.

Go back to 2000, 25 years ago and if in 2000 we were having this conversation, and I would tell you, you know, I just came from the future. I’m in 2025 and I need to report to you the top four job categories of 2000, no longer exists in 2025. There are no more travel agents, there are no more bank tellers.

Like a trillion dollars of retail jobs have been evaporated cause everything’s gone online and all of car manufacturing has been replaced by robots. And these are the top four job categories by far. Please now describe the economic conditions in 2025. Everyone would be like, oh my god great depression, mass unemployment, disaster.

And yet we have lower unemployment, higher employment, and much higher GDP per capital and quality of life than now, than we did 25 years ago. It’s easy to imagine the jobs that are going to be destroyed. It’s easy to imagine that the humanoid robots will displace, you know, the picking and packing people in the warehouses and the self-driving cars are going to remove the drivers for trucks first and maybe the Ubers, et cetera.

It’s way harder to imagine the jobs that we will create in the future because humans want different things. You know, like social media manager, witch caster in general influencer. And so I do not worry that jobs will disappear, but new jobs will be created. The demand for work and the demand for job is elastic.

And I can actually make suggestions or suppositions is to have some of these jobs will change. So let’s talk for instance, the role of a doctor. Today, your doctor in the US is a diagnostic machine. Sees you, he sees your symptoms. He says, okay, you have this. He and you’re a cog. By the way, we will see you for three minutes.

You, you need to be, he’s as efficient with his science possible. He has zero bedside. But in the long run, do I think AI is going to be better at diagnostic? They will know the latest research. They would look at every micron in your MRI and they’ll make a better diagnostic. Absolutely. So what will the role of the doctor be?

Well, actually, you won’t disappear. You will be the nice bedside manual person who says, look, let me interpret the data from the AI, and you will be reassuring and you will actually be following up on you to make sure you, you take your medicine right now, you get a prescription. No one checks in if you’re taking medicine and how are you doing?

There’s no quarterback for your entire medical information that will change. Think of the role of the teacher right now. You have a teacher of variable quality in front of students, spewing facts to teach students a variable quality. I can imagine AI doing a much better job at teaching you a personalized curriculum at your level, but in that role, the teacher becomes a consultant.

What is it that you’re not understanding? How can I help you? It’ll actually use the very qualities that we as humans are best for – empathy, et cetera. Now, many people were like, yes, but this time is different. By the way, the number of times I’ve heard this time is different, is very high.

I heard it in the late nineties intranet, this time is different. And I’m hearing it now with AI, disrupting everything so quickly. I actually disagree. It’s not happening that quickly. Yes. We, in the startup community and the venture community, we’re at the forefront of implying AI to our lives, right? Like, we’re applying AI in our startups for customer care, for improving the seller flows, for improving program or productivity.

Our governance actually easing AI to improve, to make themselves more efficient? Is the DMV making it easier to process to get your driver’s license through AI? Is United Healthcare using AI to improve claims processing? And do medical claims analysis, and actually also to have better customer care? Absolutely not.

So the biggest components of GDP, public services, like 30 to 57% of GDP in the west and large enterprise, construction, petrochemicals, whatever they are, laggards. These things are going to end 15- 20 years. It’ll be a slow transition. And by the way, I think it’ll be an amazing transition.

We’re going to, we’re on the eve of a productivity driven revolution where everything’s deflation, everything will be cheaper, easier, better. It’s like we’re the internet, the tech revolution, writ large, has actually always been about cheaper, better, faster. And I suspect that will happen. But it’ll take 10, 15, 20 years and we will adapt.

Yeah. Many jobs will be destroyed, many more will be created and we will have, when productivity increases, wages increase, and increases our quality of life. Right? 200 years ago, we were all farmers, we’re working, you know, 70 hours a week, going hungry multiple times a year to have a quality of life where we live them less than a dollar a day.

Today we work 39 hours, 38 hours per week on the west on average. And we have a quality of life that is the envy of the kings of the yester year. And that has been brought about by technology and the technology revolution that will continue. And so I am profoundly optimistic about the world we’re facing and the things that are happening.

So no, I don’t think we should be trying to stop it in any way, shape or form. And I think government’s more likely than not to screw it up if they try to regulate it in putting the wrong limitations and the wrong roles and, and, and leading the wrong outcomes. And kind of in a way, I think the genie is kind of out of the, of the bottle because there’s so many innovation happening right and left that it’s hard probably to regulate and stop.

And given that many other countries are probably not putting any limitations, I suspect we’ll end up not putting any, and despite that, I think the outcomes will be good. Most people are well intentioned. Like, what is it humans want? We want to have a sense of purpose, we want to be entertained, we want to communicate.

So I am profoundly optimistic and I see the way I’m using AI on a daily basis and how more productive and happy it’s making me. And I suspect it’ll play a role in helping in many other such categories.

[01:46:46] What’s your take on vibe coding trend or real shift? I’m not sure what you mean by that, or is it easier to code than ever before? Absolutely. If that’s what you mean. And programmers becoming a lot more productive.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, your insights were incredibly valuable. And siren. Well, thank you Alex. I have to bring my son to bed even this evening. I’ll be there next time.

Well thank you all. This has been long, longer than I expected, but super fun. We’re almost at two hours and lots of interesting questions, which I think we’re timely and I’m looking forward to doing the next one and whatever, six months and maybe 12 months. I’m going to try to bring Dan, the founder of Clutch to tell a story.

And I mean, it’s probably the next Playing with Unicorns. We’re going to try to bring a few other more interesting founders and share whatever else comes to mind. I might do one just on Fabrice AI at some point as well. So yeah, that’s basically it.

Thank you for tuning in and asking all those wonderful questions, and I’m looking forward to seeing you on the next one.

FJ Labs Q1 2025 Update

Friends of FJ Labs,

We started off 2025 with a bang, with several exciting developments, markups, and exits in the portfolio. Ultimately, we believe the recent market turbulence has little to do with the startup ecosystem and the idiosyncratic nature of innovation and continue to think that 2025/6 will be tremendous vintages for those investing in the asset class!

Clutch: 12X markup in 15 months
FJ Labs Venture Partner Joins as CFO

We are thrilled to share that our portfolio company, Clutch, the leading used car marketplace for Canada, raised an oversubscribed C$50M Series D led by our friends at Altos Ventures. In a testament to Dan and team’s entrepreneurial grit, the company pivoted spectacularly from growth to profitability, achieving all-time highs of $400M+ revenue run-rate (Bloomberg).

This round represents a 12X markup in just over a year for FJ Labs, and they’re just getting started! We have other reasons for excitement: FJ Venture Partner and one of the smartest minds in the Canadian tech ecosystem, Anshul Ruparell, is joining Clutch as CFO.

For another consecutive year, FJ Labs was named among the most active venture investors globally according to Pitchbook’s 2024 annual global league tables. We were also ranked #6 most active at early-stage, #4 at Series A & B, #13 for investments made in the U.S and #12 in Europe.

Manufacturer-to-consumer luxury brand, Quince, announced a $120M Series C co-led by Notable Capital and Wellington with participation from DST Global and 8VC. By challenging the long-held belief that “high-quality products must be expensive,” the company has seen explosive growth and is on track to attack every category of luxury. We are thrilled to double-down in Quince, one of our largest Fund II positions by carrying value. (OuiSpeakFashion)

Pickle, a leading P2P marketplace that makes items from your community’s closets available for rent, raised a $12M Series A co-led by FirstMark and Craft Ventures. We haven’t seen this sort of growth and network effects in a long time and are eager to see what’s next! (ShopOnPickle)

CollX, an app that allows users to take photos of cards and find their value as well as engage in its marketplace, raised a $10M Series A led by MLB star Bobby Witt Jr. Since its founding in 2022, CollX boasts over 500 million cards on the platform and roughly 50,000 buyers and sellers. (Cllct)

Baton aims to solve one of the biggest problems facing SMB owners: figuring out how to step away. The company raised a $10M Series A round led by Obvious Ventures which it will use to hire more engineers and boost marketing with the goal of reaching even more owners and buyers. (Fortune)

French “AI for Pharmacies’“ platform, Faks raised a €6M round to help streamline pharmacy-supplier interactions, led by Speedinvest. Since its founding in 2020, Faks has become the leading B2B tool in the pharmaceutical sector. Today, 85% of French pharmacies use Faks. (TechFundingNews)

Construction operations software startup StruxHub raised a $4M seed round led by Brick and Mortar Ventures. The company’s software aims to simplify the day-to-day operations of construction projects of any size and counts seven of the top twenty contractors in the U.S as its customers. (SiliconAngle)

We are delighted to share Matias Barbero’s promotion to Partner. Since joining FJ in 2021, Matias has led more than 85 of our investments, helping us fortify our standing as a leading marketplace powerhouse. With unique insights from a decade working in finance, Matias has leveled-up our fintech and growth-stage investment practice, and as a proud Argentine, has been instrumental in continuing to develop our LatAm thesis.

We are thrilled to welcome Matias into the partnership at FJ Labs!

In case you missed it, make sure to check out FJ Labs’ 2024 investment year in review. All told, we made 189 investments last year (100 new + 89 follow-ons) across 23  countries! Life to date, we have backed over 1,100 startups with over 350 exits.

Fabrice sat down with LionTree’s Antal Runnebom where he shared his wide-ranging perspectives on verticalized  marketplaces, why humanoid robots are coming faster than we realize, and a vision for future energy abundance.

On the VNTR Podcast, Fabrice shared his journey from launching startups to becoming one of the world’s most active angel investors, FJ Labs’ approach to early-stage investing, the importance of pattern recognition, and our overall philosophy when evaluating investment opportunities.


Copyright (C) 2025 FJ Labs. All rights reserved.

Decoding the Founder Mindset: Founder DNA

What drives the world’s top founders to succeed—against all odds?

Petter Made asked me to draw from over 1,200 startup investments, and decades of entrepreneurial experience, to unpack the essential traits that define exceptional founders—ranging from obsessive curiosity and eloquence to extreme resilience.

I shares personal stories of failure, persistence, and eventual success, including how I survived near-bankruptcy and legal threats while building a multi-million dollar company from scratch. The conversation also explores FJ Labs’ framework for evaluating founders in early-stage deals, what makes a pitch truly stand out, and how to identify the rare combination of vision and execution.

I reflect on the mental game of entrepreneurship, comparing it to competitive sports like tennis, and explains why consistency and grit often matter more than raw intelligence.

This episode is packed with wisdom, real talk, and actionable insights for anyone building—or investing in—the next generation of great companies.

💡 In the episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why great founders remind me of pro athletes.
  • What FJ Labs looks for when evaluating early-stage teams.
  • How to spot red flags before making an investment.
  • Why are storytelling and focus underrated superpowers.
  • And how failure, handled well, becomes a competitive advantage.

This is a must-listen for anyone who builds, backs, or believes in the power of entrepreneurial drive.

About Petter Made:

Peter Made is a fintech pioneer with over 25 years of experience. He co-founded SumUp, a global company valued at €8.5B, serving over 4 million SMBs across 36 countries. Then, as CPTO at Drooms, he led the development of the world’s fastest virtual data room, scaling the business to nine figures. Petter’s earlier career saw him in leadership roles at Inatec Payment AG, Ongame Networks, and Chinsay AB.

You can listen to the episode in the embedded podcast player.

In addition to the above embedded podcast player, you can also listen to the podcast on Spotify.

Transcript

Petter Made: Welcome to Startup Insider podcast series on the topic of founder DNA. What is it that makes an outlier founder? What are the characteristics and traits that create the potential for startup success? This podcast series will explore this topic with a lineup of interesting founders to hear their perspective on founder DNA.

I am Petter Made. I’m a partner with EWOR and also a co-founder of the FinTech company. Sum up I have over 25 years within FinTech and payment space, and I will be your host for this podcast series. I hope you enjoy having these conversations with these amazing guests on the show.

Thanks for listening.

Okay. So today we have the next episode of a Startup Insider podcast series that we’re doing together with EWOR. The topic is Founder, DNA, what is it that makes an outlier founder? What are the characteristics and traits that create potential for startup success? So we’re gonna explore that in this podcast series with a lineup of really interesting founders to hear their perspectives on Founder DNA.

And today, which is our second episode, we have got the world’s most famous and best according to Forbes. And everyone else I talked to, angel Investor, Fabrice Grinda. Welcome to the show, Fabrice.

Fabrice Grinda: Thank you

Petter Made: Alright, so if I was to introduce you with everything that I’ve done research on now, it would probably take half the podcast.

So maybe you can do a quick little intro of yourself and your background and, what you’ve built in your career to date?

Fabrice Grinda: French originally came to US for college, went to Princeton, top my class, worked for McKinsey and Company for a few years, and then at the age of 23 started building companies.

I’ve been building and investing in tech startups for 27 years. I built three large venture backed tech companies. The last one is a company called OLX with like 11,000 employees, 30 countries over 300 million weeks a month. And I’m now an investor in 1200 startups. I’ve had over 300 exits my specialty is mostly network effect and marketplace type businesses.

Petter Made: Amazing! So what we’re gonna talk about today is not what you typically talk about in a lot of the podcasts you’ve done. I thought we’d dive deeper into what makes founders really tick and the patterns and some of the things that we can see with successful founders.

There’s such an incredibly wide variety of people and characters that have been successful in the past, when we’re investing super early at the angel stage the person or the founders tends to be very, very important or the, the thing that has the, the biggest determinants of success.

So I wanted to dig into this with this podcast series. the first question I’d like to ask you then on this topic I did quite a bit of research and looked at a lot of your, Excellent podcasts covering a wide variety of topics, what would you say are the main drivers in the psychology of a founder?

What is it that makes them tick?

Fabrice Grinda: I’d say there are few things that are necessary for a founder to succeed. first is like unshakeable belief in themselves. The reality is the five year survival rate in a startup is 5%, so there’s a 95% failure rate. You need to believe that these odds do not apply to you.

You are gonna bend the markets to your will by actually out executing and building something that is necessary. Number two, having a product, a vision, a market you’re going after that makes you tick. if you’re super passionate about solving a problem

You’re gonna go for it no matter what. people might tell you this is impossible, but You’re like, no, this is a problem. I’m gonna go and address it. it makes a huge difference because if you’re competing

with people that are just working to make money or whatever you’re gonna add, compete them because at some point they burn out versus you’re doing it for fun.

And so they’re like, this is your life’s mission. You have to solve this problem no matter what, and you’ll sacrifice anything. The alter of that success. in terms of the traits that are, relevant in being successful beyond grit, ambition, et cetera.

I would say the two most important ones are the ability to be an extremely eloquent person. it is often underrated because. You figure out, if I’m reading smart, I can execute. It’s enough. But actually, if you can sell the vision extremely well, you’re gonna be in a better position to raise capital to higher valuations.

That’s come easier. You do better BD deals, you get better press, you’re gonna hire better people, but it’s not enough. You also need to be able to execute so that then diagram intersection, that’s pretty rare. People that can both be very eloquent and visionary and can execute.

Petter Made: Yeah, I totally agree with that. you can put that down to personality, charisma, communication skills. you need to be able to attract other people to your team and that takes a lot of communication skills and charisma all of those different traits rolled into one person is definitely quite unusual.

I think if we look at the storied founders that are the best at those kinds of characteristics, the one that comes to mind for me. Immediately would be Steve Jobs, who kind of had his own reality distortion field. He came up on stage and people were just looking at one word on the slide behind the background.

And you know, this guy tells a story that everyone in the audience absolutely believes hanging on his every word

Fabrice Grinda: But I actually know a lot of founders like that. You know, Brett Atcock and figures like that. Yeah. And by the way, the reason this is not a sufficient characteristic is some people had it and yet the execution was terrible.

Right? think about Elizabeth Holmes. she had a reality distortion field when people believed her. But ultimately she denied to execute her vision. And that’s why it’s a necessary but insufficient condition for success.

Petter Made: absolutely. we’ll talk more about execution later on

There’s so much that comes down to that. I listened to, a lot of, your backstory and your, beginnings in France talking to school teachers who really, didn’t support you and wanting to build the next big company like Microsoft or something like that.

If you look at the characteristics of your own personality, what would you highlight in terms of leading you on the path to founding companies? I know you’re a very curious person. you talk about this intellectual curiosity. Can you maybe double down a little bit on that and see where we go with this?

Fabrice Grinda: Yeah, I think it was a few different things. in 1984 I was 10. I got my first BC and it was love. I first click, right? Like, I knew computers and I were meant to be together forever. And so I started going down that path Because I had unshakeable belief in myself. The fact that everyone else thought I was crazy, didn’t matter to me in any way, shape or form.

I don’t know why so many people are worried about the thoughts others have of them or they have imposter syndrome. I’ve usually, I have the opposite problem, especially as a kid now, I’m way more modest than I was a kid. I was a kid of like, I could do anything. Nothing will sock me. And I very, I was very judgmental.

It’s like my, my value judgment was all around IQ and, intellectualism because of course those were the things I was good at. Took me a a lot longer to realize that those would not be absolute measure and everyone was as merit. But the, I think if you, if you have fundamental belief in yourself and you’re curious, you know, you, you start unraveling the threat.

But I think you still need the fundamental belief and not care about whether other people are thinking about you because otherwise you might just listen I just didn’t care what. My parents, teachers, or others would tell me, I would just go down and do the things that made sense to me, and I thought they were all idiots.

Petter Made: Yeah. I mean the whole part of curiosity with people that I meet that are founders, like in my work with EWOR, I coach a lot of startups and one of the things I find as a common pattern is that at least for the main founder, obviously you need people that can compliment your skillset on your team as co-founders. But the main sort of co-founder, the driving entrepreneur is someone who usually strikes me as being very curious in that they like to observe what’s happening in the world around them. And if you’re curious, you tend to be a learner. And what I mean by a learner, you’re a lifelong learner.

You kind of describe to this if I can make myself 1% better every day at my life, what will I look like in a year’s time?

Fabrice Grinda: Yeah. Look, I think the way it stresses itself is I, as a kid, I love to read, right? And I still to this day read 50 to a hundred books a year. I read a book an hour and a half every night before bed.

And so I’m not trying to read books, it’s just I did for fun. It just so happens that these things lead to learnings, whether they’re like silly sci-fi, which still gives you plots of ideas, imagination, or biographies in history. And I think if you’re curious, you’re often a student of history and a student and I think just makes you a

Better person to lead because you have enough curiosity to like, oh, how does marketing work? How does sales work out? Does customer service work? How do I optimize every one of these processes? And to your point, the CEO founders should be a generalist rather than a specialist. And then you hire specialists for the different functions.

But you need to have a level of address. Like every company I’ve ever built, I started out as head of customer service. You know, just so understand like what are the, and it may be about a product seal, and I also started out as head of products. each of the functions to make sure I understood exactly where the users wanted, where the problem or pain points were, et cetera.

Petter Made: Yeah, that’s something that really resonates with me as well, when you’re building a startup and you’re, one of the original co-founders, you end up doing everything from the beginning because it’s just you and your co-founder.

It becomes a journey of setting up different functions in the company and then recruiting people to take over from that. then you fix the next thing, and before you know it, you’ve got a company with a number of different departments doing different things, which I think is really important.

And I think some of the great, corporate leaders tend to be people that understand every single part of the business and can speak to that if there’s a problem. I think I heard the other day Marc Andreessen said that Elon famously, the way he works now, spends one week with one of his companies and just asks them, what’s the biggest problem you have right now?

And then he dives in and solves that problem in a week. in a year, he would’ve solved the 52 most important problems in the company that he’s the CEO for or involved in. I thought that was an interesting way of approaching CEO workload and how you spend your time.

Fabrice Grinda: Yeah. I think that said, identifying where the problems are is, is just important. ’cause sometimes people think something’s a problem and it may not be a problem. And it may not be the biggest problem. often you look at the constraints in front of you and you’re like, oh, this is the problem, but if you remove these constraints in some way, shape, or form, perhaps the bigger problem is something else. So I think thinking through that makes a lot of sense as well.

Petter Made: A lot of startup founders obsess over things that aren’t really worth their time at all, in fact.

Fabrice Grinda: Competition for instance, most startup founders over index and over worry about what competition is like, what they’re doing, versus the things that kill startups. When you look at the top 10 reasons why companies fail, they’re mostly intrinsic. It’s like, oh, we did product market fit or work for hundred KA month an MRR, but then beyond that, I can get the customer acquisition cost to work because this was a more niche problem than I expected.

Or if I fought what my co-founder and that destroyed the company, or I raised too much money at too high price, and then I didn’t grow into the valuation, and so now the company’s dead because no one wants to. And, you know, triggering the anti-dilution provisions and doing it Dan Round, I mean, these things are way more likely to kill your company than competition.

So if you do everything right internally, things will work out Don’t worry about what the competition’s doing.

Petter Made: Absolutely! A hundred percent agree with that. And especially the co-founder fights. that is more common than you could possibly imagine. A lot of the startups who, who asked me that question, especially the ones who don’t have a co-founder already, how do you find a co-founder?

I’ve heard incredible and unlikely stories around that. But at the end of the day, figuring out whether you are compatible with your co-founder or not, I tend to tell them, go away for a weekend. Go hiking in the mountains and just spend the whole day together. if you survive that weekend, you know.

Chances are you’ll get to know each other. that you can stand each other and actually work together would be some sort of a litmus test to see if you could stand the test of time.

Fabrice Grinda: I don’t think this is even enough. Like the, the foundry dating do work sessions together and problem solving, understanding how you would work together, go on a weekend like hiking or whatever together, meet each other, significant others.

Like really spend, I would spend like a few weeks, if you can make it work before you commit to anything. Before you go down the path. I wouldn’t start working absent having done that because many people realize they were not that compatible from a personality perspective.

some people need to be constantly encouraged or told that they’re doing good things and the other person is not that personality. Some people I. Want clear path of what to be done. Some people are open and free and maybe you even have different visions for what you should be executing.

And also what is the overlap of skills? If you have similar skill sets, it’s not necessarily a problem as long as you are very explicit about who’s doing what to make sure you’re not taking away from each other’s work. So anything is possible, but you need to test it out basically.

Petter Made: absolutely. that was the case when I founded one of my companies.

We had very similar skill sets in both FinTech guys, but we did exactly what you said. we were very clear on who was doing what and when you’re literally starting from nothing, there’s plenty of work to do. That was never a problem. Yeah. I mean,

Fabrice Grinda: My co-CEO at OLX in a way on paper looks the same as me. You did Harvard. I did Princeton. You did BCG. I did McKinsey. He built eBay of Latin America. I built eBay of Europe. But he was in Argentina, I was in New York, and I was much more technically focused and product minded. So I ran product, I ran BD in every country except Latin America.

I did PR except Latin America. he actually ran the entire team. Most of the office was in Buenos Aires. So he actually managed all the day-to-day operations and you managed local strategy and marketing in the countries he was in and PR, et cetera.

And then we were both on the board. And even though it looked like we were similar, we made it work.

Petter Made: Yeah. That’s amazing. finding a co-founder is almost a bigger commitment than getting married, given how much time you’re gonna spend together.

Fabrice Grinda: Absolutely.

Petter Made: Scary thought at least for us who are married. Alright. In terms of your own stories of, resilience and grit. I mean, we talked about that obsession with the problem that you wanna solve is really important. But also the thing that keeps coming up and that I’ve discussed with some of the founders on coaching and the partners at where we’re trying to understand whether someone really is gonna be a great bet for us to invest in the resilience, the overcoming extreme adversity.

Can you share some stories of how you overcame extreme adversity to finally succeed?

Fabrice Grinda: So first of all, I’m not sure it’s easy to vet ahead of time if someone’s gonna meet that, because if they’re young and coming out of college They’ve had a life of uninterrupted success, right?

how do you succeed in high school? You’re smart, you do your homework, you get a pluses. How do you succeed in college? you go to class, you do the homework, you study, you get your A pluses. How do you succeed at Goldman Sachs or McKinsey? You know, there’s a very clear expected like that.

What do you need to do? how people deal with failure. Like when they go and pitch VCs in the first 50 pitches, they get their teeth kicked in and can’t raise money. when they’re low on cash, how do they handle it? It’s hard to tell unless they’ve been in these types of situations before.

maybe they go extreme, whatever they do extreme, extreme camping or they run old ultra marathons or whatever. And by the way, one of the reasons guys have a tendency to do better than women is because, because men ask. Women advocate rejected her constantly. They already are, are kind of better used to dealing with rejection.

and it’s kind of unfair. But that’s the way that social situation is set up such that men, by default are better trained at dealing with rejection. But obviously once you’re a founder, you figure it out. my example of extreme grit is after my first startup failed to have a success. I hoped it would have the company that bought us saw their stock price fall 99.98% during my lockup period.

Now, in my defense, I wanted to sell eBay for 300 in cash. But my majority VC said, no, we should sell to this other company. And of course, that was the wrong bet because that company felt, and I couldn’t, I didn’t have a drag, I couldn’t force it. So I went from zero to hero cover of every magazine back to zero again.

So then we’re in 2001, the internet looked like it was dead. It was not gonna be a big thing, but I’m like, you know what? I like creating something out of nothing. Capital’s not available. I also have almost no money. I need to build an idea that maybe I’m not the most passionate about, but that I think I can make profitable, because my objective at this point is not changing the world.

It’s actually, I like being a founder. I wanna create something. So I decided to build a ringtone business in the us and this is at the time, and pre-smartphone, 2001, 2002, 2003, where these things were big in Europe and Asia and there was nothing in the us. the US was years behind.

There was no payment systems on cell phones. there was no text messaging within care or prosecutor. I mean, it was like the dark ages. The US was years behind Europe and years behind Asia. But I’m like, you know, it’s worked everywhere else. I think I can build this reasonably cheaply and that the market will turn in the direction that will allow this to happen.

And the problem though is. It was unclear when that was gonna happen, and no one wanted us to have it. So I spoke to all the carriers that were not interested. They had no delivery systems. I spoke to all the music companies. They didn’t wanna give me licenses. so I launched literally hacking into the delivery networks of the carriers doing things they didn’t know was possible.

In order to deliver our ring tones, I couldn’t connect to their systems directly or charge through their voting bill, so I would charge my credit card which of course didn’t have their conversion rate. And because the music companies didn’t wanna license me anything, I violated every copyright possible.

Now it turns out that if you, for each illegal download, you have to pay 250,000 fine per debt. And, but I had started tracking who owned what rights which was massive detective work. I started sending them checks for what I thought was the fair price, which is the mechanical rights.

there was a reasonably established price for where that is, and many of them were cashing down. And so a year later, a year or two later, people started getting cease and desist letters from music companies asking for billions of dollars because of course, 250,000 times a couple tens of thousand demos.

There’s billions. And so I would pick up the phone and call. The lawyer was like, I’m so excited that you’re talking to me It was like, maybe I’m taken aback, because they were like, wait a minute, we’re trying to sue you and shut you down, and you’re just so happy. I’m like, look, I’ve been trying to talk to you guys.

I actually want to pay you. you haven’t been willing to give me a license by the way, I’ve been paying you and most of you guys have cashed the check. So I think we have an implicit agreement. it turns out that because I kept feeding capital in the company and had no money in the company, it would cost them more to shut me down than to deal with me.

And so I was able to settle. With all of ’em one by one over the course of like 12 months. I ended up being the only person licensed by all my employees when they were seeing like were getting sued for $5 billion. They were like scared shitless. Like, nah, don’t worry about it. I had a pile you know, whatever, five feet high of cease and desist letters and like lawsuits for billion dollars and I’m like, nah, one more.

there’s a saying in French, which is, you can’t shave it at me. I have no money. I’m nothing to lose. ultimately I paid them. the biggest one is the MIII overpaid meaning instead of paying what I thought was the correct price, I paid two x that price and, and it worked really well.

Got all the licenses. the next problem was the, there was no capital to raise, right? Venture ca what I called VCs in 2001, 2002 and I’m like, Hey I want to build a direct to consumer telecom business. every DDC company like pets.com, e toys, Webvan, it got under, all the telcos, got under CI, WorldCom, et cetera.

They hung up. I ended up raising 1.4 million, but I raised it in five to 10 K increments. I would beat someone and be like, I have this amazing idea, you need to fund me. And I would get like 5K or 10 K or 15 K, and then I make payroll. So over the course of two years, I missed payroll 27 times, including four months in a row.

I would tell my boys I don’t know what happened. The bank didn’t process the wire. this is really an incompetent bank. I should probably change. Consider changing is my gross chase. I just didn’t have money, a bank account, but then I would get 10 k, poof, I’d make payroll. And yeah, we did lose a few employees but they all got paid everything in the end when we became profitable.

But as a result, I invested. So I, I left the last company with like 700 k. I spent every last penny in the company. I borrowed a hundred thousand of my credit cards. I couldn’t afford rent. I couldn’t afford food. I slept on the couch in the office. There was shot in the office. So basically I slept in the office.

I shot at the office. I was so poor. I decided, you know what? I’m going to get my cost structure. I think I was down at $2 a day. I would eat four cups of ramen noodle per day. I could even, I didn’t even afford coffee, like water ramen noodle, nothing else. For two years, I lost like 50 pounds. It was probably extraordinarily unhealthy.

But ultimately we grabbed victory from jaws the defeat. One through persistence of like, I kind of bribed Microsoft to take a deal with me for MSN, which led a press release, which led a Motorola, inbounding me, the Motorola deal led to Nextel, and then all of a sudden they were signing every single operator.

And so we went from poor to having every contract possible and exploding. After two years of pain, we finally became profitable, which to this day is the most meaningful moment of my professional career. not the day I sold my second company or the third company

But the day that we became profitable on August 15th, cashflow, profitable, August 15th, 2003. we paid back everything. I paid back the credit card debt. I paid back the employees. They had been paid for four and a half months. And I was like, okay, we are now masters of our destiny.

So it was hard. And yeah, everyone thought it was crazy, you know, like sleeping on the couch at the office missing payroll was like, why, you know, just go get a job in McKinzie or Goldman or whatever. But I’m like, no I I don’t think I’m employable. I want to do things my way and I’d like building something and I’m think this doesn’t work.

Whatever, go to business school, I can go find, find a job. Like I think my problem, people overestimate the risk they face. what’s the worst that could happen if you’re gonna get a job somewhere that pays? Well, boo ha. I mean, it’s not a big deal. Maybe you need to sleep with your, your parents on the couch or whatever for a while.

So you do that. all these things never bothered me.

Petter Made: That’s amazing. that story’s just wild. It sounds there’s a lot to be said for asking for forgiveness instead of asking for permission.

Fabrice Grinda: Never ask for permission, ask for forgiveness. Except in medical stuff and financial stuff, you don’t want the FDA or the SEC to come after you, like, things that could lead you to jail. Yeah, ask for permission. Everything else, ask for forgiveness.

Petter Made: That’s a pretty good filter right there.

Fabrice Grinda: And in general, avoid regulated spaces. life’s too short to deal with slow regulators and governments.

Petter Made: that’s a seminar I give at the start of every EWOR class; regulated versus unregulated industries. Things to think about and watch out for if you’re getting into a regulated space.

Fabrice Grinda: it’s for maybe different personality types, right? If you do get in regulated safe space and you can do some level of regulatory capture, which people always do, you do have a barrier to entry, but my tolerance for low IQ regulators and public service workers and interacting with them is essentially dim minims.

Every time I go in a meeting with ’em, I just wanna take a machine gun and shoot them all. it shows that I’m like, okay, you are not worthy of my time and attention and I don’t know what I’m doing here. You guys are idiots. as a result, I am not the person, A probably not the right guy to build companies in the space, or b, definitely not the right guy to go interacting with these people.

You need to hire a much more diplomatic person. But I feel this way about most things in life. I optimize my life to be surrounded by super smart people that I find intellectually challenging and to interact with them whether they be founders that I’m interested in backing me, founders that I’m already backed, that I wanna help or vCs or general people that are smart and interesting.

Petter Made: I a hundred percent agree. I had the same thing dealing with regulators in, in the past when I was building sum up, that was extremely frustrating where we felt like we were training the regulator rather than them evaluating us to give us the license we needed, which can be incredibly frustrating.

I’m gonna jump down since we’re on the topic of risk. I had some questions there that I’d like to dig a little deeper into. starting a company itself is an inherently risky endeavor. Like you said, the five year survivability, 5%, and if you tell most people that upfront when they’re about to start a company, that’s a bit of a downer.

Chances of failure are incredibly high. we’ve not talked about your own relationship to risk and how that shaped your life. But in terms of founders. A lot of people have a hard time taking that step out into the great unknown, right?

when you’re staring risk in the face and you’re like, I wanna start this company, what is it that some people, don’t take the step? And some people just, jump blind and go for it.

Fabrice Grinda: Well, two reasons. One is maybe you, don’t have a choice.

this is a problem you are meant to be solving and you have to solve it. It’s so painful to you that this exists in the world. You’re just gonna do it and the risk, damn. So that’s one approach, and that’s true for many people. But number two is, I actually think that the risks are a lot lower than you think they are.

You go create a startup, so you leave your job, whatever, and it fails. So what. You had amazing life experience that will make you a more interesting, viable candidate for any employer possible than the alternative of whomever was doing the boring nine to five job. what’s the worst that’s gonna happen?

You could go to business school and get a job at McKinsey or a startup I don’t think these things are inherently risky we live in a world that is so devoid of risk and it’s so privileged people don’t realize that like two years ago I walked to the South Pole pulling my hundred pound sled.

It’s like negative 30 temperature, negative 50 windshield. I needed to have my fuel, my food, my tents no connection to the world. It’s like 10,000 feet altitude. I need a poop and a plastic bag every day for like two weeks. You come out of that. I ended up in like a cheap motel, like full of cockroaches of the southern ghost tip of Chile, which is the staging area.

And you know, like even though it was like $2 a night hotel, like I take a shower and it was like there’s hot water, there’s toilet, the toilet’s like the greatest invention in the history of mankind. I have a bad pizza. It was the best food I’ve ever eaten. we are so privileged I would argue there is no risk if you’re in a position to build a startup, I suspect you’re the type person that doesn’t really face risk.

Now if you tell me you’re whatever a mother of three, no family support structure. And if you don’t feed your, if you don’t make money, you can’t feed your children, probably you don’t have the risk profile for it, but the people that typically go to elite schools and or young et cetera.

Like when you’re young, the opportunity cost few time is low. And you can live in your parents’ couches and you can, or your friends’ couches. it’s way less risky than people think this world disproportionately rewards slightly more risk than others are willing to take. Not a lot of risk.

In fact, I think there’s no risk. the worst that can happen is you fall back on your feet and you’re be fine.

Petter Made: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think it’s one of those things that between the ages of 20 and 30, you should be taking a lot of risk because exactly as you say, the downside is not that big and you can always go back to work. Then there are crazy people, like myself I hadn’t really achieved any real success financially with the startups and the projects I’d worked on up until I was 41.

And that’s when I founded Sum Up and I actually had to sit down with my wife. ’cause we had three kids at the time, between ages of five and six twins. and I had to ask her like, are you willing to go one more time and really burn all the bridges and try to build a company.

And for me, at that point in time, I guess it was one of those things where. You kind of feel like the stars align. Like I was super pissed off that I couldn’t pay with a card anywhere in Europe. And as a Swede, we’ve been paying with cards for the last 35 years, every time you go to the UK and you can’t pay with a card, had to go and stop at an ATM to get cash to pay the cabbie.

I mean, it was just ridiculous. They even got laughed at by my own kids up at a mountain Pitta in Switzerland, where I couldn’t pay with a card for the 20 buck pizzas we just bought. having experienced all this, I just felt I’ve gotta solve this.

Like, I can’t sleep I have to do this. at that point in time, I also had a bit of a chip on the shoulder syndrome, thinking, you look at Jack Dorsey, this bearded hipster over in the US having this huge success with, Square. this guy doesn’t know anything about payments.

I haven’t had 20, 17 years of payments at that time and felt like, yeah, come on. We can do this better in Europe. And I just jumped and there was no failure. I could not have failed at that point in my life. And so I succeeded. But that’s the other edge of the spectrum, in terms of your tolerance of risk, I think you’ll come to a point in your life when the fear of the risk and the opportunity or the drive to solve the problem and taking the risk. It’s like it comes at a tipping point and then you just, do it.

Fabrice Grinda: Totally agree.

Petter Made: So I’ve heard that you have a passion for tennis, which is something that, we both share especially competition, tennis playing matches, whether it’s at the club level or whatever. it’s an incredibly mental game for those who are not tennis players and who haven’t played competitively.

Do you see any parallels between that match competition psychology and the founder of mental game?

Fabrice Grinda: Well, I’ve always been into individualistic sports: tennis, paddle skiing, kite surfing, et cetera. Definitely, it is a mental game because a lot of it is, your technique and your physique, but then you have to, like, you need focus, you need grid, you need tenacity, you need to make sure you’re present.

a lot of the skill sets do translate, especially if you played reasonably competitively, If you were playing college tennis or whatever.

Petter Made: I didn’t play competitively much when I was younger. That was more later on in life. we lived in Germany and Frankfurt for eight years, and there the kids played club tennis and so I joined the club and started playing as well competitively, which is a lot of fun.

I’m also interested in longevity, but totally different topic. one of the interesting things out of playing tennis and being part of club tennis culture was that I read that tennis players or people who played tennis throughout their lives can live between seven to nine years more than someone who is, for example, not active at all.

Fabrice Grinda: that’s correct. it’s unclear that it’s causation versus correlation.

Petter Made: This is true.

Fabrice Grinda: Someone who’s fit enough to be able to play tennis, it’s probably in a much better shape than someone who’s not when they’re in their sixties seventies and eighties.

And so it may not actually be causation, but yes. Is it great to have coordination balance and movement, good shape so you can stay thin et cetera? Absolutely. But it may be correlation, not causation.

Petter Made: Could be very, very much so. even with the structure of, club life you’re meeting people and being sociable, which from a mental health point of view, I think can also be a factor.

Fabrice Grinda: Cool. there’s a book on the mental game of tennis. I’m trying to remember what it was, but it’s all my bookstand and and it’s amazing. a lot of the lessons apply to building startups not just, tennis. Even if you don’t know anything about tennis, the book is full of tips that make you a better person and lead a better life.

Petter Made: I a hundred percent agree, and it’s a pretty short read. can you name the book on behalf of you know, our listeners? So for us Tech people, it’s kind of hilarious. It’s the Inner Game of Tennis. by Timothy Galloway. With a New Forward by Bill Gates.

Bill Gates,

Fabrice Grinda: he’s a tennis player.

Petter Made: Literally. Yeah. Holy cow. I didn’t know that.

Fabrice Grinda: He plays tennis and pickleball. Absolutely. He played famously with like Federer games. With Federer against someone else in a ProAm tour. He’s a big tennis fan.

Petter Made: That’s awesome. Didn’t know that. Yeah, me too. really enjoyed watching the mental tug of war between the top players. obviously Federer, Djokovich and, and Nadal. But now, now that you see the new players coming up, I find it really interesting to see that it’s the mental game that is the differentiator not the skills.

Fabrice Grinda: Yeah, for sure. Why, why do I think Sinner as an agile and everyone else is He’s just like, he’s like  Djokovich like so much more focused and like he has a killer instinct. Like he will break the right time. He’s gonna hold, he doesn’t lose his concentration, et cetera. Alcaraz has of course remains very young.

So he said opportunity to improve, but I’d say that’s the one area of Alcaraz could improve.

Petter Made: He’s mercurial and not consistent. consistency can directly translate to founders as well because it’s, solving problems all day.

I was talking to one of our ideation fellows the other day and she said, I’m just putting out fires all day, every day. And it’s just, next day it’s just a new set of fires. I said. that’s exactly what you can expect.

Fabrice Grinda: That’s, that’s the founder of life. Yeah. No. So someone asked me independently, like how to say fit and like you. Look, if you actually want to have sexy, fit, whatever, you just need to be at like 10% body fat. And the way you be at 10% body fat is actually reasonably easy, eat a lot of protein. Well, if you also wanna have you lean, you eat very little carbs and medium fat, and if you wanna go keto or, or the opposite meat medium, reasonably low carbs and even less fat.

And you do that every day and you walk to mass today and you’re good to get there but no cheat days. on cheat days, people end up overeating, et cetera. But like, you do that every day. It’s consistency. every day you eat healthy, you work out with lift weight three times a week, you walk to mass and stuffs, you’re gonna be super fit.

it’s consistency day in and day out. And this applies to being h to being fit. This applies to like building a startup, just showing up every day and like turning out the facts, whatever they may be.

Petter Made: Yeah, absolutely. the discipline is really showing up on the days when you don’t feel like it, it’s the same whether you’re going to the gym or walking in through the door of your startup. you gotta have a smile on your face and be ready to go every day. that consistency, is a big important factor of being successful. we’ve been talking a lot about the mental game and what’s important in terms of characteristics of founders when you’re looking at investing.

So I’ve listened a lot to the FJ Lab’s investment thesis and how you guys pick out companies. wanted to dig in a little deeper in the evaluating the team or the founder stage can you break down the process for evaluating the founders? Especially when you’re investing at the, I mean, you’re doing angel investing at Venture Scale, which is a very unusual and cool combination.

Fabrice Grinda: The thing is, most VCs are, angels will tell you, oh, I only invest in extraordinary founders. And the problem, everybody says that. right? So the thing is, they can’t define what it means for them. And it can’t be like porn. It can’t be, oh, I know it when I see it. It has to be much more exclusive than that.

especially since I’m not the only one taking evaluation calls, we tenant investors at FJ Labs, right? And we’re five partners. And so we’ve codified what we think makes for a good founder and how you evaluate it in a one hour time. And by the way, we don’t even do founder background checks because the background checks and the best vendors are often pretty awful. I mean, they were not good employees. They were talking back to their bosses. They were working in their startups where they write their job, et cetera. If anything, maybe a negative signal. so for us in a one hour call, we’re gonna tease that first, how eloquent and visionary, and are they like, can they sell, can they pitch super effectively?

And then you can figure it out within five minutes, right? Like the storytelling skills, how are they telling the story of how they got there, what they’re building, how they’re building. So the storytelling skills matter tremendously. and it’s half the story, but then also how do they deal when you’re entrusting them and you’re asking questions because someone can seem like they have a super polished pitch because they’ve repeated the same things over and over again.

if they’re following the same story and the same slides, they look very polished. But then you start doing rapid back and forth, et cetera. And then you realize, oh no, they, they practice that pitch, but they’re actually not as. Thinking on their feed and, and visionary and eloquent as you might otherwise think.

So that’s one element, like do they need that super fast, eloquent clarity of thought that is going to lead to better fundraising, bd, et cetera. And number two, we wanna evaluate how they execute. this is a very early stage company. We don’t know how they’re gonna execute.

the way we tease it out is how well do they actually understand the business they’re in. we care deeply not just about the team, but about the business. Like total addressable, market size, unit economics, the deal terms and the thesis. when I double click on the business, I want to make sure that they really have understood, okay, what is the margin structure of the business?

What is your average order value for whatever it is you’re selling? And by the way, may better be in line with what the market average is. What is your expected recurrence for it? Which again, better be in line with what the market average is, so you better know what those answers are.

what is your contribution margin on each of the transactions, and then how much is it costing you to acquire the customer? I don’t care if it’s a sales team or if it’s influencer marketing or your paid marketing, but have you done, landing page analysis? Have you looked at the density of keywords on Google?

Even if you spend 500 bucks, because you’re pre-launch. Have you actually tested it? What did the CCPs look like? What did the CPAs look like with an expected conversion rate? What do you think the C to Lt V looks like? And how thoughtful are you in your economics? And if you can articulate these things very well, chances are you’re gonna be able to execute.

what we found for most founders is they fall in one of two buckets. Either they have this nailed, but they can’t sell, they can’t pitch. And by the way, pitching is, teachable. Or they have the oration thing, but they haven’t actually looked at the details of what they’re building.

And so that then diagram intersection of the people who are amazing salespeople, we can also execute is pretty small. in a one hour call, I feel that we can tease it out because we know exactly what we’re looking for.

Petter Made: Got it. in my experience, there are a lot of great founders that are great across all those different dimensions.

So we talk about the combination of communication skills, obsession and perseverance that you can see in a founder. Sometimes they tend to be a bit spiky. Is there anything that you zoom in on, and think is a green flag as opposed to a red flag. on those three important factors of a founder.

Fabrice Grinda: Look, I want them to be spiky on passion, obsession, writ, and whether or not there’s spiky in other areas. You know, are they introverted or extroverted, kind of relevant. Is there IQ? You know, treat deviation is actually less relevant than you might think. Grit and hardwork tenacity outperforms IQ. And often, in fact, two smart founders, or not the best because A. they were looking for the perfect answer and so they overthink things. And B. they feel things should come easier than they do. so they’re more likely to get discouraged easily, which is surprising.

So not true of all, but, so the spikiness, yeah, I wanted in a few categories and the rest I don’t care that much. I have extroverts, I have natural introverts, I have super high IQ, I have average IQ, like those matter much less.

Petter Made: And you can always cover for some of those blind spots with other members on the team, right?

So a common myth in startup culture is, the young, hyper intelligent, first time founder, you know, goes straight outta college or college dropout and, and then goes and build, goes on to build this huge company. how do you think that plays out in practice? is this just a great story meme that people like to tell

Is there actually something to this? are they so oblivious to the hardships of the world that they’re just gonna believe that they’re gonna be successful there?

Fabrice Grinda: it’s both true simultaneously, they did not know it was impossible, so they went ahead and did it.

if you’re in college, you’re living off pizza and you don’t need to sleep. You’re 21, it doesn’t matter. you can take a lot more rest than most other people with no consequences. But your failure rate is also a lot higher because you have no idea what you’re doing.

And so I think they’re both simultaneously true that yes, you can attack categories that no one else thinks of attacking because you’re not even aware of what’s supposedly impossible in the category. But also you’re, yeah, you’re gonna hire the wrong people, pick the wrong businesses and fail much more often.

and it’s totally okay. I think the flip side of that is, when you look at the stats, I read somewhere that the average age of successful founders is 42. does that reflect the importance of having deep industry knowledge and experience and actually knowing what you’re doing?

What do you think? I look at our success rate in founders and the first signed founders. we’re probably better than most in terms of successful founders because we care so much about valuation and, and unit economics. That or failure rate is lower. We, we make money about 40, 50, 40 5% of radis.

So only 55% in a we fail which is very low for the seed and pre-seed and a type sodom of the founders who have failed. So for us the second time founders. They fall in two buckets. Second time founders who failed the first time. Second time founders who did okay the first time and second time founders did extremely well the first time, second time founders who did extremely well the first time have the same success rate as first time founders.

Because what happens is they’re like, okay, now I can go big or go home. And so they take more risk. when they make it, they make it a lot bigger, but because they go big, they often fail. you end up with much more diverse outcomes. the average return ends up being the same, but fewer succeed much bigger and most fail the blended IRR for us and multiple ends up being exactly the same. Even though when they succeed, they do whatever, 20 x instead of three x and when they fail, there is zero as opposed to a 0.5 x.

Now this the best return for us. on a risk adjusted basis are founders who failed or did okay, but not great the first time. They’re way more likely to succeed the second time. But they don’t succeed big. They succeed, but they’re not shooting for home runs. They’re shooting for doubles and triples or even singles.

But they’ve learned on someone else’s diet. You know, the first species, you know, whether it failed or not. they’ve taken into consideration all the lessons from that, and now they’re applying it to their second startup. And so they do better, but they’re not the most successful. But they are successful.

Petter Made: Yeah. And what about third time founders? I mean, the second time founders one of the categories you mentioned was the ones that did super well the first time and then the second time they’re like, of course I’m gonna be successful ’cause I was successful the last time and it was super high risk and, and what whatnot.

And then they fall flat on their face. And then you have the ones that, do a second one

Fabrice Grinda: And then they become investors. There are not that many very successful first time founders who become second time founders.

Petter Made: Right? ’cause why would they

Fabrice Grinda: Because their ego is tied in their identity of success. So they don’t want to put that, and they realize that some of it’s luck but luck as in like the right category at the right time, et cetera.

And they don’t want to be failures. So many of them do not become founders again. But the few who do take more risks and it ends up with like, you know, higher failure rate, higher, but bigger, successful. They make it third time founders from the super successful category. I’m probably the exception in that category

People lived on okay the first time And pretty well the second time or an okay the second time. Yes. Way more likely to be third time founders.

Petter Made: Yeah, absolutely. you mentioned in one of your podcasts you said that you were, you became an accidental VC after your third company that you built, right?

Fabrice Grinda: Well, more than third, but third big venture backed company.

Petter Made: And so I, this is kind of the path I’ve chosen myself. I’ve only had one big success it was the last one, like when, when I, when I was thinking my, my kids are, they’re, they’re moving outta the house now, going, going off to university the last two this summer.

And I was thinking what am I gonna do? Am I gonna start another company, which my wife wouldn’t have been a great fan of. Or I can become an investor or startup coach and really work with sort of paying back for some of mys success in helping young founders to avoid some of the mistakes and failures of my past and maybe, make higher value mistakes on their path of making a company with some kind of impact.

One thing that I’m thinking about, and talking to young founders. what are your thoughts on this dichotomy between innate characteristics versus acquired habits or knowledge in accounting for founder success? Like you mentioned earlier that speaking publicly, for example, is a skill you can learn, but absolute grit or, having that what I call the unstoppable gene, when I see it I’m like, okay

Fabrice Grinda: you could teach grit as well, but it’s better if you teach them when they’re 10 than when they’re 20, right?

you can teach public speaking to someone when they’re 10. You can teach grit by like letting your kids take like controlled rest where like they fall behind their faces and like we live in an overly protective world. Where kids are not allowed to fail. You want them to fail.

You want exams to be hard so they get B’s and C’s and they have to work for the a’s. You can’t, the mean cannot be a a minus that, you know, that makes no sense. You want them to go out and. You know, play in the yard and like break their light once in a while. Like, my son just broke his leg as age three and I’m teaching him extreme skiing.

Proudly mindly, maybe over optimistic on my side. Alright. But it’s okay. You know, you test his limits, it’ll be fine. It’ll heal. it’s better if you teach these things early, but they’re all teachable. Now, the one thing that’s maybe not teachable, so it’s not great. Grid is teachable. Public speaking is teachable.

The one thing that’s not clear is ambition. Where does ambition come from? Why are you ambitious versus not ambitious, right? Like, there are a lot of high IQ people that are, great solving problems like brain teasers, but they’re not ambitious to change the world. But that’s true. It’s all of average IQ people.

But like where does that come from? That’s maybe more the X factor. Like how driven are you? So it’s not grit because grit, I think that’s each, but like you actually want to make a difference. You are willing to sacrifice everything to make a difference. That, where does that come from? Unclear. You know, I had it when I was five.

Like I knew I wanted to make a ripple in the fabric of the universe.

Petter Made: Exactly. You kind of have that inner belief in yourself that you don’t really know where it comes from, but you know you’ve got it. A lot of the people I’ve looked at who are very impressive founders have some sort of a really strong adverse event, like losing a parent or a sibling early on in life or maybe their family goes bankrupt and they have to live on ketchup and noodles.

a lot of these things where, you’ve been subjected early on in life to something that shapes you and provides this grit. You have this chip on the shoulder, maybe you want to prove yourself to your peers or to your parents a lot of those things tend to pop up with people that are just so, that’s true.

Fabrice Grinda: so there’s a book by Matthew Audible on David and Goliath. The people that have dyslexia are more likely if you can deal with it, you’re more likely to do things you would never want to wish on your kids.

Right? on average they’re negative. most people that face these traumatic events, it is a massive negative for them. And they do not deal with it well. There’s a tiny subset that overcomes it to the point that they become unstoppable machines. That said. That is not the big way I would teach grit.

It’s like I’m gonna create adversity. Your house is gonna burn down, your parents are gonna lose everything. I’d rather find other ways to, to teach that. And also people that do it because they have a chip in their shoulder and they’re doing it to prove it to their parents society or to themselves than usually themselves, that they feel they’re unworthy in their imposter syndrome.

I don’t think that’s very healthy. in the long run, you’re gonna burn out if you do it because you love it, you’re unstoppable. If you do it because you feel you have to prove it at some point, you’re gonna totally burn out.

So I don’t love these it works for you the first start, but I don’t think it works forever.

Petter Made: I think you got a good point there. I mean, that actually resonates with myself very heavily in that, when you’re building something where it’s a full rocket burn VC funded startup, and we were, five founders from the beginning and after two and a half years not wanting to miss my kids growing up I decided to pull back.

You know, working a hundred hours a week for two and a half years straight, and then seeing that the company was strong, we’d hired the first 200 people, we’d raised over 150 million. It was gonna be successful. I just didn’t know how successful. And for me at that point was when I pulled back and took a regular job and enjoyed being with my family and turned out to be a great investment.

Sums is worth a lot of money these days. that was, a very unusual outcome. An unusual sense, I don’t know.

Fabrice Grinda: Not as unusual as you think. Many founders at some point, they’re no longer the right person around the company or they get tired or whatever. sometimes it’s at the B, sometimes it’s a C, sometimes it’s at the IPO, but it’s not often that the founder from zero to one or zero to 10 or zero to a hundred is the right founder for, 100 to 10,000 or a hundred thousand.

So the opposite that Mark Zuckerberg’s of the world were more the exception

Petter Made: Yeah, a hundred percent. knowing myself as well, the reason why I’m doing what I’m doing now is because I really love the zero to one. I love the early stage ideation, the product market fit,

That is what really excites me. Scaling a company, doing the same thing day in, day out, just in another country or another market. Just not as not, not as exciting to me.

Fabrice Grinda: Totally agree.

Petter Made: Alright, Fabrice, amazing conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time. I think we’re gonna round off here with one final little thing.

Is there a piece of advice or a thought, something that you can leave with the founders that maybe have not taken the step or have taken the step and could use wise words on the path to success?

Fabrice Grinda: I’ll give you two. One is a quote from Goethe,

It’s attributed Goethe, which is “Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it” basically just do it. And the other one, which is my favorite poem, It’s called Invictus. Give me one minute to recite it to you, it matters. So deeply and profoundly.

Out of the nights that covers me,

black as the pit from pole to pole.

I think whatever Gods may be

For my unconquerable soul.

And the felt clutch of circumstance

I have not winced nor cried alound.

Under the bludgeonings of chance

My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this wrath place of wrath in tears

Looms by the horror of the shade.

And yet the menace of the years

finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters now how straight the gates,

How charged with punishments the scroll.

I am the master of my fate.

I’m the captain of my soul.

And to me that is extraordinarily powerful. no matter what challenges you face, you can face them.

Petter Made: Amazing. what a perfect way to end this podcast episode. Thank you so much again, Fabrice Grinda.

Fabrice Grinda: Thank you.

Please buy my apartment :)

As I mentioned a decade ago, I bought an apartment in New York, when the city made high-end Airbnbs illegal, to serve as my urban base. I always loved New York and could not imagine living anywhere else. It’s the best and most dynamic city in the world. It can cater to any niche interest you have. It’s the haven for my intellectual, social, artistic and professional endeavors.

My key consideration at the time was the specific layout of the apartment and not its location. I wanted a huge terrace connected to the living room to be able to have indoor/outdoor living and host epic parties. I preferred double-height ceilings and wanted a hot tub on the terrace.

The neighborhood was a secondary consideration. I found an apartment that met all my requirements: 3,000 sf, 2,500 sf wrap-around terrace, hot tub, double height celling. It was seemingly at a reasonable price, and as a bonus had a large storage unit I could convert into a game room. It also came with a parking spot in the building.

The apartment happened to be in the Lower East Side which worked well for me. It’s a young and hip neighborhood with great bars and restaurants. Just as importantly it’s a 10-minute Uber ride to both Brooklyn Padel Haus clubs to play padel!

Sadly, not everything was smooth sailing. The building had been badly built and there was first a massive leak from my terrace to the apartments below. I had to rip out my terrace to give the building access to repair the roof. It took me years to realize that they did not have the money to properly repair the roof, and it only got done 4 years later when I paid for it. Once I thought I was done with repairs, the roof above me failed destroying my apartment and essentially leading to a gut renovation.

On the bright side, this gave me the opportunity to rebuild it as my dream apartment. I had meant to work with award winning architects SAOTA for my Dominican Republic project. As the project did not materialize, they offered to help in New York. Boy did they deliver. The terrace was gorgeously upgraded with beautiful pavers, a single piece metal pergola, and gorgeous landscaping with tons of trees and flowers. In addition, we added a firepit and replaced the hot tub with a more contemporary one.

We also redid the interior, putting beautiful floors with radiant heading, gorgeous wood slats, a contemporary chandelier, and custom-built bookcase. We fully redesigned my bedroom and bathroom and walk-in closet. The bathroom now has a freestanding counter, a huge contemporary eggshell bathtub and shower with infinite water jets. Every bathroom also has Toto toilets.

The piece de resistance is clearly the Planar video wall that I use to display gorgeous video art above a beautiful gas fireplace.

You can see the ensemble in the amazing video below.

Once all the issues were addressed a few years ago (and it’s worth noting that they did not come back), the apartment became perfect for me. It had my exact aesthetic and became the location of countless intellectual salons, poker nights, game nights and parties of all types.

Alas, it is no longer serving my purposes as my life profoundly changed with the arrival of my kids. All of a sudden new variables that had not entered in the consideration set in 2015 became a lot more relevant:

  • Availability of large green spaces and kids’ playgrounds in the neighborhood.
  • Distance from the best friends for playdates.
  • Relevant subway access to get to school.
  • Space for a kid’s playroom independent of the adult living room.

Just as importantly, it’s now rather small given that I am considering having another kid and need room for the nanny, Angel, visiting friends and family, etc.

As such, I have decided to follow the path of many parents before me and to move to a larger apartment in Tribeca. It’s with great chagrin that I am selling this apartment. It’s really been perfect for me and a labor of love. It’s especially sad since I am selling it for significantly less than it cost me to acquire and turn into my dream penthouse, but priorities change and here we are.

You can find the listing at: https://streeteasy.com/building/one-avenue-b/ph1

If you are interested reach out to Andrew Azoulay at (917) 622-2334.

>